If a salary of £30k is “shit money relative to our costs of living” what does this make a salary of £10k?

Abject poverty?

XJR, no one is moaning about salaries per se or defining academic pay as 'low', but rather an academic salary is 'poor' cf. to the amount of hours of work/responsibility/stress and lack of work/life balance (in my opinion anyway).

It's easy to say £30k is a good salary in comparison to a dustman or shelf stacker - but then they haven't invested 7-10 years in HE. Actually if you work out an hourly rate for an academic, based on the 'actual' hours worked, the rate of pay probably isn't much higher than many blue-collar jobs. And then if you take into the debt accumulated and wage earning years lost in gaining a HE, then the blue-collar work is probably better off than an entry level lecturer.

But if comparisons are to be made it should surely be with other professional posts?

Golfpro, £28-34 (usually exc. London weighting) is the current pay scale for lecturers. I've just had a quick look at jobs.ac.uk, and computer science lecturer positions start at a minimum of £27k or £28k (admittedly I only looked at the first 3 lecturer positions I could find).

It's possible the people you know are not on the new pay scale yet. The bracket of £28-34 is a result of the new pay scale that was hammered out after the strikes the other year.

Well, yes, it's certainly not about the money - we wouldn't be in this game if that was the persausive factor. But it is important that a salary offers a comfortable lifestyle, particularly after all the work that goes in to being an academic.

Personally, I don't see academic life in the UK as a viable option anymore, in terms of the pay versus costs of living, and hours worked/stress. I know a lot of academics in my field who supplement their salaries with private sector work to earn enough to live comfortably (this is in London).

The difference in salaries here may boil down to a science versus non-science distinction.

In business, law, and soc. sciences, an academic's first position is a 'lecturer', and not normally a postdoc or RA position. Jouri is right, entry-level lecturer positions pay around £30k (normally a £28k-£34 bracket).

For most part of the UK, a salary of £30k is shit money relative to our costs of living.

Taking Canada, as an example, the starting pay for an academic roughly equates to 35k (sterling), but Canada offers around double the spending power compared to here.

Work-life balance is definitely the persuasive factor. I know too many academics here that work over a 70 hour wk (mainly knocking out publications) and are earning approx. 30k. I'm very quickly coming to the conclusion that I'm not prepared to do that. There are easier ways to make a living.

However, if I could find somewhere that does offer that illusive work-life balance - I'd be happy to remain in academia (assuming someone would employ me).

In terms of salary, I remember reading Canada and Australia offered the best salaries cf. to cost of living.

Since academics are relatively undervalued, underpaid and overworked in the UK, and there seems to be a general ennui concerning the whole academic system, which countries do offer academics a good life?

Do you have any good experiences of academic life in other countries? or know of anyone who has?

I have, for the most part, decided that if I continue in academic life, I do not want to pursue it in the this country.

"i too worry about how original and ground breaking my work is. but science it's not really THAT original. usually stems from other peoples ideas. even when you do think of an idea. later on you find someone has already done it, or a similar way, and you're like , damn it!!"

My area is not science, but I think this holds true for most disciplines. Last year, I was moaning to an Australian academic about the fact my PhD was no longer original, and he said it's easier that way...just make sure I take the research to a new level in some way.

I was just reacquainting myself with the UoL regulations, the PhD must:
'form a distinct contribution to the knowledge of the subject'. Originality is defined in two facets:
- discovery of new facts,
and/or
- independent power critical.
I 'think' my thesis fulfills the latter criteria, but does not present many new facts.

I'm up to 7k - I'm hoping to report back later tonight with about 9k finished (I should be more motivated, as I'll have around 90k once I finish this!).

Tetris, thanks for your words concerning 'originality'. When I started my PhD my topic was very novel, now there is a huge amount of material on it. As my supervisor is not a directly specialised in my research area, it's very difficult to judge whether I am contributing a sufficient 'unique' contribution to the field.

Everyone else, good luck with your deadlines today.

Ouch! I read this message late last night, and backed-up immediately.

I use a WD passport external drive for back-ups. I don't back-up online, but that's a very good idea.

Sunday blues? YES! Yesterday I did so well. Today, not so good at all. I just can't find the energy. So far, 500 words written and some restructuring.

I'm having a self-doubt day about the 'originality' of my thesis.

I would blog my progress - but I know it would just become yet another distraction. I'd start procrastinating about writing about my procrastination on my blog (if you get my drift...).

I track my progress based on my wordcount, and panic levels.

"My word count's going up and down like a yoyo"

Tell me about it - I've just edited away 500 words :(

Me too :) I feel the apathy!

Deadline is Tuesday - and I only have half of the wordcount done I've never left it so late before.

Having 'I'd Do Anything' and 'Britain's Got (No) Talent' on in the background helps relieve the boredom.

I know you've had time off, Angie. So you may not be aware that the BL is a pretty awful place to research now as they have opened the doors to undergraduate students (arrrrhhh). So if you don't choose a hotel close by, like I suggest above, be careful not to arrive at the library late, as there is often queues and the books take ages to arrive. Antonia Fraser and a few other authors were banging on in The Times the other week about how awful it was (boohoo for them).

With travelling and staying in London being v. expensive...have you considered ordering your books to the reading room at Boston Spa in Yorkshire. You can order something like 16 books in advance. Since I moved out of London, I am thinking of using this option in future, rather than London.