That line of thinking, Cryo, really bothers me--that people just fall prey to their temptations and "its not their fault". Would that same cheating partner use that line of reasoning to rob a bank--geez, there was all that MONEY in that bank, and if it had not have been there to tempt me I would not have robbed the bank, its not MY FAULT. Or--this one--that women should not have been wearing a short skirt and walking down the road at one minute past sunset--I was so tempted, and it was her fault, I am not responsible, I was tempted and it was not MY FAULT...

Its NOT normal to have this much stuff shoved into your brain!!!! And sometimes the down time can be very productive...swanning around I just FOUND THE ARTICLE I NEED!!!!!!!!! something to look at tomorrow coz right now I am OUTTA HERE!

I think that infidelity is a symptom of larger issues in a marriage or relationship--it does not just "happen". Nor do I think that the cheated upon partner need castigate themselves as to blame for what happened. The partner who cheated made THAT choice and crossed THAT line on their own--no matter what led them to that line, the choice to go over belongs to them, and them alone, AND the cheating partner needs to own full responsibility for the choice to unzip outside of the marriage. No ifs, no ands, no buts--people are not "driven" to cheat--they make their own choices, there may be dynamics that push them in that direction, but the final act, of crossing that Rubicon, of the ultimate decision to ACT--its theirs alone.

I am so unproductive this afternoon to the point of being bored. I am just waiting to meet some people to socialize after they finish work for the day. I could tell this morning that I just was not going to get my head round a thing once I got the paper draft done, so I just accepted that. I have worked several days in a row, including weekends, to get it done, and am keenly aware of my own sense of DONE!!!! at least for a day or so. So...I am just watching the clock and relaxing. Tomorrow hopefully I will be back on task!

I am so unproductive this afternoon to the point of being bored. I am just waiting to meet some people to socialize after they finish work for the day. I could tell this morning that I just was not going to get my head round a thing once I got the paper draft done, so I just accepted that. I have worked several days in a row, including weekends, to get it done, and am keenly aware of my own sense of DONE!!!! at least for a day or so. So...I am just watching the clock and relaxing. Tomorrow hopefully I will be back on task!

I am so unproductive this afternoon to the point of being bored. I am just waiting to meet some people to socialize after they finish work for the day. I could tell this morning that I just was not going to get my head round a thing once I got the paper draft done, so I just accepted that. I have worked several days in a row, including weekends, to get it done, and am keenly aware of my own sense of DONE!!!! at least for a day or so. So...I am just watching the clock and relaxing. Tomorrow hopefully I will be back on task!

Someone mentioned child abuse as a reason for divorce. Another issue in marriage ( and non marital relationships as well) is spousal ( or partner) abuse. You can only applaud someone who has been abused, who gets out of the abusive relationship. Abuse is an invidious cycle, and it destroys the self-esteem of the person who is being abused. I worked with battered women when I was practicing law, and I read some statistics that on average, an abused person leaves and re-enters the relationship SEVEN TIMES before they leave for good. I have seen as well the devastation that abuse wreaks on a person through the experiences of a close friend. An abusive marriage "failed" when the abuse began--not when the marriage ended.

ohhhh...and...48 or 72 hours later that moron's clothing is still in the laundry. some of it is in the dryer, some of it still in the washer! Perhaps I am being a bit harsh to call the person a moron. The more I think of it, the more it starts to resemble the scene of an alien abduction!!!!!!

Oh yes,I would guess any of us here could relate. There are always going to be days like those. Having just shoved out another major draft on something this morning, my brain felt fried. So I have not really pushed myself to do a whole lot--have read some articles, posted on here, caught up on some emails...etc...I think that writing can be hard, esp. if its not something that really grabs your attention or imagination. In that case, sometimes just doing a paragraph or two a day until you get something that resembles a paper is the best to hope for!

Cryo--not trying to start an argument here or disagree with you--but am curious about why you would only want a divorce in the event of infidelity, but not for other reasons?

I would have forgiven infidelity, if my spouse were willing to move forward and work on all the other items in the marriage. Without question, I would have been upset, but without question, I would have found it in my heart to forgive and try to keep the marriage viable IF my spouse wanted that.

so, for you, why is infidelity the point of no return on marriage--but not other issues?

Cryogenics--what would you define as a "successful" marriage? Is it marked by duration, or by quality? I never imagined being divorced--I think most people who get married at least for the first time do not even entertain the prospect of divorce--not sure about those who marry for a subsequent time.

But I whole heartedly disagree that divorce=failure.

Again, by what measure or definition?

Marriage is about love, honor, respect, until death do you part--and if spouses have ceased to love, honor or respect each other but remain married--how is that even a marriage, except in name? If, on the other hand, divorce occasions that each ( former) spouse can maintain some measure of love, honor and respect for the other--is that not honoring what marriage is REALLY about--even if marriage ends?

Mind, I was not sanguine about divorce while it was ongoing--I had my share of anger, hurt, sadness, etc...but I was fortunate that over time my ex and I had a series of discussions where we could be very frank with each other, and work through the issues we each had of hurt, etc, and come to a resolution and closure of those issues. The discussions were sometimes sad but never angry or accussing, never inappropriate or immature or blaming, just simply two adults trying to make some peace in their own worlds, and move forward, respecting the other but moving on without them.

This, I think, was a rare but blessed occurence. In this, I think, I have been fortunate, and if asked the life lesson from all of it, is the importance and power in forgiveness,,,both of self and of others.

Given that, how could a marriage have worked? Only if I either wanted to have pitched battles on key issues, or swallowed my desires and subordinated them to his anytime there was a disagreement...neither one is a happy prospect for a long term marriage or partnership of any sort!

Agreed 100% Juno.

The language around marriage and divorce is so loaded--to say a marriage failed to equal divorce is something I try to avoid ( but its so common sometimes I just say it). I used to tell people my marriage did not fail, it ended. Two very very different concepts. As I said, for many years it was a happy marriage, in the end, personal differences that could not be resolved drove two people apart. My ex now remarks rather frankly that marriage means a lot of compromise, and he is not someone who likes to compromise--he wants things his way. Well, that can make for a difficult time in a marriage! He is happier being a single man ( although he has a current long-term relationship, they do not live together--his wish, not hers).

ohhhh....no.........having just braved another phone call to a bank...now they tell me they offer different things from a phone call than they do if you call in person...the more questions I asked, the more attractive accounts became revealed...I don't know why this feels so overwhelming! but it does!