OLivia stomps off to the library full of self righteous indignation over the state of academia. PAH!

Oh lovely--a course that should be promoting how to not only survive but pass your viva with flying colours does the opposite by telling unhelpful war stories...why am I not surprised? What is with the unhelpful attitudes and offerings in academia to promote one's confidence and success? If the one I have to go to is like that, I promise you that I will challenge the content ( in a most professional and appropriate way) by asking what on earth those war stories contribute to the ability to pass my own viva. For instance, they ought to be telling you how to comfortably present your work, about the importance of body language as you discuss, i.e. eye contact, sitting up straight, body language that is open rather than closed, etc;, how to address points you do not know how to answer, etc, etc, NOT about how to demoralize people already feeling some anxiety and stress over the process.

Hang on there Lara. I wish you success in this venture.

I would suspect most people have moments where they feel like quitting--whatever it is, be it their PhD, moments in their marriage, or as a friend related to me, in child birth, she felt like saying, I don't want to do this, please take me home! Its a human response to a stressful situation. The end. Anyone else who characterizes it as anything else is really just seeking the opportunity to be an arrogant jerk, in my opinion.

Lara is expressing emotionality, which again, is part of the human experience. The UK culture tends to be so frightened of emotions, that having them is seen as a huge social faux pas. It represses them in a most unhealthy way. I suspect people are uncomfortable with Lara's expression of emotions, and seek to belittle her rather than deal with their own discomfort around her emotions.

NO NO NO NO NO NO~ the posts that are on here that are critical of Lara have NO PLACE and I think the forum administrators should remove them post haste. She is under a great deal of stress. Posts that say you are unstable, or you are throwing toys of out the pram, etc. just do not have a place. NO NO NO NO NO. Why make unhelpful and quite frankly mean spirited and inappropriate gratitious remarks to someone who is using the forum as a means to plow through a tough time?

Of all the words I might use to describe the British national character, the word "gregarious" has never come to mind!!!! Rather the opposite, I would say.

That aside, I was thinking that probably a poor attitude about age is the tip of the iceberg in possible hiring practices that are dubious. What about sexism--preference of males to females? And what about racism--preferring to hire white people instead of people of colour?

Those might be as devasting to the hiring chances of very bright and qualified individuals. Again, if these were to go unchallenged, what would be the result? I recognise that challenging these is an awful stress on people...but what is the saying? That all it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing.

If some serious and hard to ignore challenges are put forth to the British hiring practices, I would guess things would change. Complaints to the accrediting bodies of universities? Where a breach of law, a law suit for discrimination? A requirement in the interview that the university present its non discrimination policies to the interviewee and provide contact details for relevant people within the university if the interviewee feels that inappropriate remarks, questions or decisions were made? Institutions will discriminate only as long as they have carte blance to do so. It takes challenging it to make it go away.

To the extent that age is being used in hiring processes, it is wrong and it should be challenged. People wringing their hands and saying, well, its too bad but that is the way it is only compound the problem.

Age discrimination should not be tolerated--whether directed at mature students or students of non-maturity ( not immaturity!). Its wrong. It has nothing to do with the quality of work that a student produces or their academic potential.

As I said, the attitude in the US is so different than that in the UK--I know plenty of people successfully starting academic careers as mature people.

When ( or if, even in a slight way) reference gets made to my age in the future, I am going to call that remark or comment on to the table to be addressed very specifically. I realize that this is not the UK way of doing things--but then again, I am not British! =) so why should I put up with this? I won't.

Until or unless this gets challenged directly the UK's really miserable attitude will continue.

Voila, you have hit the struggle re: my PhD on the head. No, its not something I love more than writing ( non academic writing). Not even close! So why am I doing one and not the other? A life question to solve. Its the what I should do vs. what I want to do--what is going to be what I do the rest of my life...an existential crisis?

I collected my Bachelors degree at 21, nearly 22, and my professional doctorate ( JD) at 24, nearly 25. That was four years for the first degree and three years for the second. That was plenty of education for awhile. Now with the PhD, I do think if I was younger I would not be bringing into it what I am now--but I would of course bring something different...I have a good work ethic and the ability to focus and work hard no matter if I **feel** like it or not, which is a plus. I have some real life experience with issues related to my topic, and I think that is all fine. The PhD I am doing now would look nothing like a PhD I would have done in my twenties. That said, there is no reason its not valid to do at any age. Having worked, I value the education again, and the learning, in a way that I did not when I was younger.

I think a preoccupation on age is reflective of the unhealthy societal messages that the UK continues to give off about age. I never gave my age a second thought in pursuing the PhD until I had an extended time in the UK, and my age was made a focus in ways I found offensive and ridiculous.

I bring something different to my PhD work than someone in their 20s. I am not knocking doing a PhD young--nor saying you should wait until you are in mid-career to go to do it. There are pluses and minues at each stage of the game. For me, the things I am studying did not even exist when I was 25. A long career working with these issues and watching them develop over time brings a certain already developed depth of knowledge, life experience, views, and a sense of how these issues are played out in the "real world." Its important to me that my PhD work has a value and application to the real world it tries to address. That is just my own view of my own research--one of my strong motivators--which will not be shared by all doing PhD work, and does not make one kind of research better than another.

I think that to some extent the UK is far more age-ist in its attitudes than the US. Its no big deal in the US, hardly draws a comment to be a mature post grad student starting in your 30s or 40s. Its a typical mid-career move. You are not seen as "old" or "getting on a bit", its seen as part of a logical progression you can follow if you want. It raises no eyebrows.

The UK seems to regard over 40 as with one foot in the grave.

In the US, its still seen as an age/decade/life span period where you are developing, growing, contributing, maturing, etc. Its no big deal for women to have children into their 40's, and my friends and family that have done so uniformly have healthy, vibrant children and are healthy, vibrant moms.

Hi SillyBilly

I am still around, been busy with a variety of things, but all in a good way. I will try to call round to the other forum and see what is going on there. I am glad to here its going through a revival!