I see your point. Nevertheless, I think there is a danger of trying to control what is technically possible to control.

"It can currently contol us as much as it likes (pass new law, employ more police to enforce it etc). "

"It", the government in a democracy, are the citizen. So stricly speaking citizen control citizen. Laws are passed in the house of parliament, consisting of representatives elected by the public. My fear is not so much that the state controls citizen, but that citizen start to control citizen. The power of the police increases through technological possiblities. As a result, the power of other the government increases. Hence, a step toward a police state. Without getting too philosophical, I think that would ultimately be fatal.

Bazzab. The scenario I described with chips under bridges etc. and electronic devices in your car are not science-fiction. They are currently being implemented and if you get a new number plate in about two years time you may or may not notice the changes (if they tell you about it).

Yes, we should work on our PhDs instead of debatting all this, but like so often in history, we are in a period of change and the implications of these changes for society will be far-reaching. Is it not better to discuss these issues in a forum like here instead of being ignorant?

Golfpro, better a sweeping statement at the right time than presentation of a backed up study once it's too late. Yes, I don't know if the public explicitly welcomes these changes, but they don't seem to affront them, otherwise I would read about it daily in the press (not just about ID cards), which I don't. In fact, I only read about the changes in British society through technological control in other countries (i.e. I read Spanish, German and Finnish Newspapers online and they all seem to back up my observations). Let's be honest, backed up or not, not many people care about this topic.

Richmond, currently, total control would be an illusion. But with technological progress, it will become increasingly easy to control human beings. The United Kingdom is one of the oldest democracies in the world. Therefore, I am very shocked that this country takes now the most drastic steps to abandon democracy - and that the public welcomes these changes.

The definition of democracy is wide, of course, so we should not go down that route and debate its definition, but focus on the tangible measures which are currently being taken in this country to control citizen. I think it's a dangerous development and I wish my girlfriend or more people would at least recognise the problem.

Listen to Superham's words. One day, you might remember them and think "If only I would have listened back then.".

Like the rainforest destruction, the process of total control is irreversible...let's hope the best.

Although I certainly tend to exaggeration, the points I made are all valid and based on facts: Bazzab says: "And as for Otto's claim with chips under bridges etc, dude it is not going to happen in our lifetime, if ever, so chill out."

Well, unless you die in the next five years or so, these things will certainly happen in your lifetime.

I can summarise it in simple words: What the government is currently proposing and trying to implement will one day go into history as a period of transition. Away from democracy as we knew it toward a new era of total control. Hate it or love it, it will happen.

Dear Dr 404

Please read the thread "anyone addicted to facebook", then you know the answer. This is the definite proof that someone is not taking good care of your data and knows too much about you. Can you see the hidden connections?

This thread has generated an amazing amount of interest..

I think a democratic nation/state/government should not try to collect data/spy on its people. That's what usually dictators do. The whole idea of democracy is to trust people.

To give you an example: soon it will be possible to monitor speeding cars (the device communicates that information to the police automatically). In the future the police will be able to remote slow down speeding cars automatically, together with a fine. Rules are important but citizen should be trusted

Addtionally, the government has the right to access all the data the companies collect. TESCO will introduce a new system very soon which will allow you to check out without taking the products out of your shopping cart-the packaging contains electronic chips and the amount to pay will be deduced automatically from your credit/debit/club card. What sounds very convenient indeed will result in total control. The government will always know what you buy, where you were, your health history, your DNA. But things will even become worse as these are just the first steps. Technological possiblities are endless.

Nobody seems to notice/care. We are sliding in a new era, a scary one if you ask me. Personal freedom will be gone with the wind.

Addtionally, plans are in place to collect data from your car number plate. New number plates will contain electronic chips which interact with electronic devices under bridges etc. This information will be used by insurance companies to determine the premium price you got to pay, of course the police will have access to this data to determine where you were at a certain point in time. This is just the first step. Total control will become very easy.

The new database will combine existing data with all data from the NHS, additionally plans are in place to collect DNA samples of all citizen in the near future (currently just offenders).

I'm not so sure about that, Richmond. If a society does not resist measures which harm democracy, then this is not necessarily a democratic act. Rather testimony of ignorance. For example, if citizen and parliament voted for a change in legislation which gives Tony Blair more power, then this would be a step away from democracy.

On the other hand, of course private companies can have their own policies concerning data collection. The only thing I wanted to emphasise is that they create an atmosphere which implies that they DO have a birthright to do so.

The main point I'm trying to raise is: companies collect loads of data, the government is starting to collect loads of data, but what happens with this data? What happens if immoral people get access to this data?

"usually all personal data is held by some government body"

Really? That's the problem isn't it. In a democracy there is no need for the government to spy on your consumer behaviour and other stuff.
Also, the companies have no birthright to get all that personal data. You buy a product and that's it. I take my right to refuse to give them that personal data, if they insist, then they lost a deal.

No, I did not mean it like that. I'm just really impressed with British politeness, just not used to it. But I think it's a good thing although sometimes it's not easy to understand what someone is really saying