Fair enough.

Actually I think you can be really happy that you like your job/research, because most people don't even have a choice. They do something they don't like and then the find a new job and realise after a while that they don't like that either.

That's true, Richmond.

Stress levels are pretty much the same, maybe even higher. Yet, in such types of jobs you might earn £100k, so that sounds better, in particular if you want to work hard for a reason.

The only explanation is that those academics who work in high-profile institutions value this little fact more than a higher pay.

Which ones again shows that in academia, title and respect from peers is more important than a healthy salary.

the more I think about it the more I feel sorry for those poor academics who work for 10 years to become a senior lecturer at a first-class university.

The funny and at the same time bizarre thing is, the teaching-orientated universities pay the same salary like Oxford etc.

So theoretically someone could be a senior lecturer in one of those universities with a publication record of ZERO and maybe not even a PhD.

At the same time, his colleague is a lecturer at Oxford, earns much less, has 20 high quality publications.

Stupid system isn't it.

d) they are happy with low salaries and expect to be the scum of the nation

They should pay high salaries for the simple fact that someone had the perseverance and dedication to go through the process of three to four years of ordeal, setbacks and difficulties.
If not PhD graduates, who can be more motivated. If I was an employer I would definitely have a look at PhD graduates, even for unrelated areas.

a) they are intelligent

b) they don't give up easily

c) they are crazy enough to sacrifice their live for work

I'm pretty much money-driven, but that's not the only reason I want to leave academia. I also don't like the attitude of most people I've met in my department and on conferences nor do I like a lot of other things I see happening every day.

it's not Greek origin.

It's the English translation of the former town (ruins in Turkey) of Troia

That wasn't the question. Why would anybody want to, despite the negative points I listed?

No offense to people who love it, I'm just interested WHY they love it.

Why become a scientist then (honestly!!).

Just a quick summary:

- extremely low salaries compared with industry and compared with work hours required for teaching, administration and publications

- recognition maybe from 100 UG students and 50 peers in the world

- your research won't change the world (with exceptions)

- Hierarchical, hostile working environments

Why do it?

Thanks for the replies. Not planning to become a lecturer, just interested. I know some post docs but interestingly enough they don't want to stay in academia.

I always read Post Doc. Is it possible to become a lecturer without these intermediate step or is this rather uncommon. Does it happen at all and if yes, is it subject to a long publication list?

Anybody knows anybody who did this or who knows the usual procedure?

It's true that society does play a role but at the same time it is a common trend nowadays to blame something instead of accepting that there is something called "individual responsibility". In this particular case some guy decided to kill 31 people, including himself. It happened in the US, but just a few years ago a similar incident happened in Germany, a society with very strict gun laws and a completely different society than in the US. Still it happened. In my opinion, every case requires a case-specific investigation, at least at first detached from the geographical or national context of the incident.

Still, I agree that these incidents appear to happen more often in the US than elsewhere. Or do they really? Or is it just what we believe to be true. I'm quite sure that in Iraq more incidents happened in the last 3 years but they are definitely related to political and society-related factors. It's all very complicated and complex anyway.

I didn't have a gun question, Piglet.

I also think it is not possible to always make gun laws or society or computer/killer games or anything responsible. Some people are just crazy and nothing can be done to prevent this from happening.

..that it ends (hopefully) with a big post- Viva celebration

..that it will be over one day.