I have a fancy way of dealing with this...

"And so, inspired by X and Y's typology of... "

or

"This below gets abc concepts together. In doing this, I'm inpired by Smith's ...."

BUT, I should add a caveat: my academic writing style is very simple/much like spoken words, and hence it might not go with other styles...

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Fairyface, on reflection, I find these bits most problematic now. What solution do you suggest? Do you suggest, *now*, even though it is clear that there are intellectual flaws in the work, that the UK university passes your degree, despute not finding it of a requisite standard, just because the fees have been paid?

By extension, are we not then suggesting that paying fees alone legitimises the grant of a degree? Also, ask yourself, if 3 months had been enough to ask you to leave, as you now find acceptable, would you have left? would you not have felt equally, and probably more wronged then, at not being given enough time to find your feet in a new socio-cultural-linguistic atmosphere?



Accepted. Why do you think your supervisor is doing this then? What on earth has your supervisor to gain after producing a PhD drop out? After investing 3 yrs of supervision, I wonder what he stands to gain by suddenly throwing you out if you are competent, and if your work is intellectually satisfactory.

Fairyface, I am inclined to think that PhD students have to 'watch out for signs' along the way. And these signs are not to come via hand-holding. If you blame your uni for not warning you or spoonfeeding you, if you blame them for having you 'self stufy' your PhD, do ask yourself why you did not, in these 3 long years ever wonder if your work is really at a competent standard, what remedial measures should be taken and where you stand, generally...

I wish you all the best, and please believe me, your govt paid 12k quid a yr to have you come and study here, you are *lucky*, far far luckier than many home students who cannot secure funding and babysit, serve coffee, do anything to pay fees, or worse, the many international students who have perhaps according to the powers that be, 'let their countries down' by researching British stuff, that serves British academia, and hence do not even get a penny from abroad... (not said with any bitterness but I just find it interrsting, although understandable, that because I research Brit teens internet use the funds abroad wont fund me, although the reverse would be true... so, knowledge for the sake of knowledge doesnt quite matter!)

Anyway, off I go..

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Hi



I shall write a long post with multiple points, sorry!



1) On your large questions on funding:



I think you are getting a little confused because of your own worries. Yes, fees are different for international students (I am one myself, and work hard to pay it, for I dont get a penny from any government/family etc). My thesis has absolutely nothing to do with my country of origin. I work with British kids about their use of the internet. Naturally, I haven't any money from outside, on the other hand I am non EU, so I havent even got RC funding, so I pay my own fees thankfully supported by grants, scholarships, RA work and similar such things. I work hard, and have been lucky.



But today, we are not discussing funding policies. There are many (divergent) views on this, and please do realise that if, as an international student, you want to complain about fees, there are absolutely legitimate worries from home students about this as well, who sometimes face unfair competition simply because people come in from abroad, who are sometimes incompetent, and less deserving at times, but can afford a place. Universities have been minting money this way as well. There are many sides to this debate and I think there is a space for complaints from multiple parties in this.



(Right about now, I am getting the feeling that this thread will blow up into a massive debate, far removed from Fairyface's problem)



2) On your own dilemma



Fairyface, coming to *you* and *your* dilemma. I shall be honest, and please do not take me otherwise. I think your language situation is not competent enough to go throught he academic rigours of a Britsh PhD. You are in science, but even then, thinking/expressing thoughts coherently is an absolute essential. You do not need to be a Shelley, or even a JK Rowling, but you do need to be able to grasp/express matter correctly. From your posts I can see this as a clear problem.



Should your supervisor have taken you on despite noticing this? No and No. Should they not have warned you/guided you towards the best possible remedial measures? yes, and yes, a thousand times.





3) Worries...



Also, I feel a little worried that you think your home/EU colleagues are worse than you, or in any way less competent than you are. This is in no way true! Please realise this: EU/home students have to fight tooth and nail for funding from research councils. The competition is tougher by the day. This funding does not come easily, and often far less easily than those who get money from a lot of rich families abroad.



have you an intellectual basis on which to conclude that your peers are less capable and have it easier? Do you have an extremely strong reaosn to feel that the international student fee issue is of no worry/concern to home/EU students and the question of competition? If not, I think you are being grossly unfair.





But right now, none of these 'meta' issues are your concern. For your problem now, A) please have a talk with your supervisor on salvaging the situation. B) please find out the precise procedures to repair the thesis, talk to the grad admin, students union, counselling, anyone who is responsible. C) make an action plan to resolve this and ask for a supervisory meeting where you bring coherent points to the table and not a mess of worries.



best, PhD Bug

Hi,

Have you explained this situation to your supervisor? How far into your research are you? Is this something being foreseen for the future, i.e. is your supervisor saying you will not be able to do the phd, or is it that you have exhausted 4 or nearly 4 years of funding and your thesis looks like it will not make it? This is a crucial thing, and let us know?

Second, in any case, would you be able to sustain yourself on the 20 hrs per week work allowance while you repair your research enough to try for the PhD (assuming your sup is correct in their evaluation of you)...

Third, what in your opinion is inadequate about your work? I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but perhaps language/grammar may be an issue in this case...

I do not wish to be critical of your supervisor or your university, but instances of this sort leave me with the (sad) feeling that international students are taken in sometimes, for PhDs without an adequate evaluation of what can be realistically expected of them, especially in circumstances where language is a major hurdle plus/minus academic issues... and then, once the money is paid and the funding runs out, it is difficult to make it meet UK PhD standards, then the student is in a real soup... perhpas it would be better to make entry more stringent (but then again, the huge fees...and the money aspects of this all explains some things...)

Hmm, verypoor, but this time round I am not disappointed with what you say above! My point was that projects have their own logics, usually very niche specific. Some lend themselves better to public/greater common acceptability (i.e. a phd on finding a cure for disease) and some are more 'obscure'.

But I also do realize that we seriously disagree with each other on this, and neither of us has the time to pursue this further. Hence let's agree to disagree.

Best, bug.

Which leads me to wonder if it is people like you who don't take all these things seriously/ethically, make the world a nice place, or whether it is the morons who do!

agree. i think it's being dealt with...

Very well put Joyce! I myself was and still am slightly miffed about the original post...why? Not because of the OP's dilemma for which they will work a solution out...but the sheer 'playfulness' with which this is being done looks unacceptable to me! If I were to enter industry today, for I felt it was the best way in which to lie low, that's fine I would hate it, and then that would be fine too, but I would re-consier leading a helpful colleague/boss down blind alleys.

I work with a scholar who has fast inducted me into the research world where I see the amount of hard work that's going behind a single grant/funding proposal let alone the project itself and the answerability it demands. Paying intl fees, I am stitching togethe multiple jobs, scholarships this and that to survive. So perhaps, this 'waste' of things annoys me more than it ordinarily would!

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I *had* to respond to you after seeing your many similar posts. What's with the Asia thing? The other day you made some offensive comment on a thread which needed to be removed. Now, you seem to be replying on every thread with something like this above, and every time you have some reference to how things are/are not in Asia. I am completely confused! Why are you doing this and what do you really want to say on this forum?

Perhaps, instead of interrupting the flow of otherwise normally proceeding threads with these irrelevant rants, it is worthwhile to collate these very similar views, all of which seem to share some insight on a certain continent, and start a separate thread and see if there are any takers leavng aside the sudden one-off new posties that seem to 'turn up' from nowhere to support the OP in these cases!

======= Date Modified 18 Aug 2009 07:59:04 =======
I think you should immediately quit.

I say this for two reasons. First, clearly, you never wanted to do research in the first place. You hadn't an academic bent of mind, your best reasons for at all getting into postgrad study were A) it wouldn't hurt and B) you wanted to lie low for a bit. I have no personal experience of either of these two feelings, so I cannot say how strong they could be in pushing one through a degree. So if these were your reasons and you now find yourself hating it, do leave. Although I should add, there are many who are not passionate about their topics and have a range of similar or stronger (economic) reasons to get into a phd, all of which are very valid reasons by themselves.

Second, however, this is a situation where an academic is investing his (hard-earned) research funding. Research funding involces bid preparation, constructive work, repeated rejections at times, bid re-preparation, re-submission in certain cases, and massive collabortive work towards a common goal, of which a phd studentship is a constructive part. This is also a situation where that academic has considered it worth their and their collegaues' while to induct you into the research circle. Third, this academic hasn't a clue (unless he, like any intelligent supervisor has figured it out by now) that he is investing funds, resources and thought on someone who is hating the very things (the degree, the projects, the networks) that any research oriented student would kill for!

I think, that is unfair. This space could go to a student who wants it, who will thrive in a collaborative research atmosphere, and use this well as a launching pad into their future career.

Of course you need to decide, but if I were you, I would quit immediately, the only consideration being organizing some kind of a job first.

best, bug.

For me, this thread, is now slightly nostalgic! I started it at a time last yr, when I was venturing out into this scary forest like thing called a Phd, and I requested those ahead of me to advise on absolutely anything :-) Soon it became such a lovely collaborative space where everyone contributed and now it's another year of new Phds coming and contributing too!

:-)

Shapingit, since your thread is titled 'advice for those considering a PhD' wouldn't you also want to volunteer insights on the other side of the coin? Otherwise perhaps a more appropriate title for your thread would be 'why not to do a PhD' or 'the potential pitfalls with a phd' or something similar?

Just saying that I found the content of the OP and the title of the thread somewhat delinked...

The only thing on my agenda now is to revise a F*&^ing bastard of an article to revise for final submission...

Will take a trip to Sainsbury's in a mo to get egg salad...

:-(

Sneaks, that's so sneaky! Nobody's going to buy the lemon glaze argument I'm afraid :-):p

Slurp.

I cooked something. Something proper.

I cooked chicken in a lemon and honey glaze with a side of potatoes and leafy salad. I did it thoroughly, gashed it right,m marinaded it right, prepared the glaze with honey, lime and lemon, zest, rosemary, butter, crushed garlic, pepper and salt.

It was the most delectable of things ever, and so I just HAD to tell you guys!

Bug..