Toggle, just while you mention it-given that your area of expertise has a strong vocational element, are there any professional doctorates that fit within the scope of your discipline/area?

I ask this because professional doctorates are usually designed with the mindset that those who are completing them are already employed in professional work and will largely complete these part-time while continuing within the profession. They are often also a little more flexible with regard to how you complete your research.

For example, one Professional Educational Doctorate I was strongly drawn to (but didn't end up applying for), was comprised of 4 big course work units, that helped you frame your study and gave provided advanced research skills. Once you had completed these, and the units allowed you to design and scope out your study as part of the course component, you could then complete a portfolio of action/research type studies (up to 3). The reporting of each would be around 20 000 words and you then could write a 10,000 word linking theoretical paper and submit this portfolio for your professional doctorate.

The reason I didn't take this, is that the university offering it was a considerable distance away, and having competed my Master's thesis at a distance, I was reluctant to do the same for my doctorate. My current university's understanding of professional doctorates was not as advanced at the time of my initial application (and it was not as expertly structured) and for that reason I believed that completing the PhD in my local state university would be of more value to me.

However, had I lived closer to this other institution (it was many hours and at least two flights away-I'm in Australia-distance matters here), I would undoubtedly have chosen this particular option. It was designed specifically for professionals to complete part-time while continuing in high level professional roles.

Very glad that you feel so positively now about completing this-good luck.

i agree -you have to keep pestering and going back. I think Creswell mentioned taking an approach where you go for your target population at least 3 times- letter or poster or similar seeking participants, then a follow up, then a postcard style reminder-all about 2 weeks apart for each group (Educational Research, 2005).

I would call or visit the organisations, as well as using online methods (if this is what you are doing). Most people working in organisations get large numbers of emails so tend to ignore those that are not urgent or related to something they need to do for their work. It is harder to ignore a real person or a friendly polite voice on the end of a phone.

Hi there. I think it can be done but it is really understandable to have concerns about work/family/life balance and how you will manage it.

The reality is many many people have completed PhD's while working full time, some with families, etc. But that doesn't make it easy and you do need to think about how you will manage it all.

Your plan sounded really good to me. I am just coming up to 3 years, and with regard to work load am about half way through my part-time PhD. I will probably take up to another 3 years to finish it. I work as a Deputy Principal of a large Catholic College and my day job is very very full. But I use my holidays to maximum advantage, use long weekends when they happen, spend roughly a day of each weekend working on it, and in peak times, I also spend a few hours in the work week transcribing interviews or doing little admin or reading tasks.

I still have some time off for other things (but not a lot), I run 2-3 times a week and try and squeeze a gym visit in once a week. My children have now left home, so in this I do have an advantage, and I see clearly why you are concerned about managing given that you have teenagers and not much family support but it can be done. I have a fortnightly cleaning service and monthly gardening service to help me with upkeep to home. I still go out for dinner or lunch at times, manage the social events that are work based and keep up with friends and family-but obviously not to the same extent that I would have if I wasn't studying. Things have had to be put off and choices made-and this still bothers me from time to time. Weighing against this, is the fact that this PhD won't last forever and while 6 years seems daunting at the start, from my perspective half-way through, well I can see an end point now and I'm glad I'm doing it. I will also be glad when it is over. It will be a useful qualification and it will make a difference to my career-but in a professional sense-I won't be an academic at the end of it and I am okay with that.

If your employer insists on this, (and as Bewildered said, it is a common expectation of academics nowadays -not teachers or others but academics-yes) and you are full-time, can you negotiate some time from work to complete the doctorate? As in, are you able to drop some other commitment -or will your workplace pay for fees and costs? Also, will they allow you, given your difficult family circumstances, to commit to this but to delay the start for a year or so-that might help with managing it a little.

Best of luck-I think you could do it and I think your plans are very reasonable, but I also understand very much why you have reservations. However, these reservations may be able to be overcome in one way or another.

Tell your old boss that you have been given a new job that utilises your postgraduate studies and is in line with your future plans (sort of clumsy but in that line). I wouldn't bother with discussing the bullying-it is not likely to change your sandwich nazi boss or the way they treat their employees. And then enjoy that wonderful feeling in your final few days of "this is the last time I have to….' There is a form of joy in finishing something properly-even when it is a job you don't like.

And congratulations-well done for all your hard work and getting the new position. Maybe it doesn't pay super well just yet but it is a real start in the right direction! :)

This response is directed towards RLD1984-I notice you mention that you have been writing up since 2012 and that you are also part-time. How long do you think you will take for the 'write up' overall? Not so much the final finicky bits before your supervisor lets you submit-but the majority of the write up of data so that it is basically a thesis/dissertation (whatever-different universities over here call it different things). And are you writing up social science or science data or is your thesis a literature/history or politics sort of thesis? (i'm asking this because I think the approach is a bit different to some extent).

I've got a draft intro-draft lit review and a dog's breakfast that will be my draft methods chapter-but I'm collecting qualitative data and expect to have this stage complete by the end of 2014-with the methods chap sort of sorted by then as well. I'm hoping then that the rest of the thesis will be two more years (2015-2016)-would this be similar to your timeline.

Glad also Frequent Flyer that the responses helped you over a rough patch-good luck with writing.

Hi OP,

I tossed around this question for a long time both at the beginning of my doctorate and then later last year when I went through this long and horrible period of doubt and quiet despair.

But really I don't think it matters that much in the long run-both are doctorates and both are difficult and have their challenges along the way. I also think, in the long run, you need to be focusing on the study itself and the journey, not so much the vehicle that gets you there.

Who really knows what opportunities will await you once you have completed this. But I would say that holding on to your employment at this particular point in time is probably quite a sensible strategy. Yes, if you do your doctorate part-time, it means a lot of work and a protracted period of study but many people take this route and most of them don't regret it at the end.

I am inclined to agree that the EdD tends to lead towards 'teacher educator & senior administrator style' roles and the PhD leads towards 'research and academic style roles' but these would be general trends and no doubt, there are many people who have one and have moved towards the other and vice versa.

Having said this, I went the (part time) PhD role-have full time employment as an administrator and teacher and am about half way through my part-time PhD. I really would be incredibly surprised if I landed an academic job at the end of this doctorate, not due to my ability but because mainly because of:
fewer opportunities in this sector
my own age at graduation and:
my employment background as a teacher (fewer papers presented and articles published than other applicants competing for these positions.

I do believe though I will continue as an administrator for many years to come. So do I regret doing a PhD rather than an EdD? (given that the EdD would have been just a bit less work and far more applied and diverse-and still led to the same place-a role as administrator in schools and systems rather than universities).

Well I have done, but for the most part nowadays, I just enjoy having this big project to follow in my spare time and seeing where the data leads me. So finally, getting immersed in the project and the process is important and when and where one arrives...well both options will lead to further opportunities than before. Good luck with your decisions :)

Great advice from Clupea about multiple documents and dealing with information overload-tips I am going to remember-thank you very much indeed.

Frequentflyer@Going to Colombia might really help given that Colombia forms the context for your research topic.

I hit a terrible slump around the end of last year and early this year, where it seemed all my attempts at collecting data were hitting the wall. Totally lost interest in my topic and working on it. I did do a bit by forcing myself but it was definitely a low point.

My supervisor's impression was that once I started getting data in, my interest levels would rise and she was so right.

So acknowledge that you have done some work (even if it isn't as much as you would have liked), and then once you become reabsorbed in your topic as you immerse yourself in Colombia, make the most of it. Good luck...slumps and troughs are dismal parts of this journey but fortunately they don't seem to be permanent. You do get through them-or at least this is what I have found. :)

This is not a dissertation but a published article based on a study that looks at teacher beliefs, social class and underachievement. Describes the methodologies, findings and is published by the British Journal of Sociology.

If you have been asked to learn more about sociology and inequality in Education, then I imagine that this journal would have many excellent articles that can help enhance your knowledge.

Mirad Dunne & Louise Gazeley (2008) Teachers, social class and underachievement, British Journal of Sociology of Education, 29:5, 451-463
To link to this article: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/01425690802263627

Hi there, as a part-time student, I meet regularly every two months with my main supervisor and sometimes the second supervisor. The second supervisor is really busy as she is Head of the Department, so she comes to my meetings only when it fits her schedule. (That's been twice in 18 months-for around 15 minutes or so). She did attend my confirmation of candidature and presentation seminars though, and when I do see her she always gives really good advice in those short periods of time.

If I were full time, the meetings with my main supervisor would be every month. Sometimes we see each other at common events and have a quick chat and we email when needed, but the two monthly meetings are more than enough for me-likewise I imagine the one month meeting if I were full time.

That being said, she has been appointed my supervisor, based on a very loose link in term's of subject matter, so she is good at helping with process but I have to find my own literature and I also follow up about seminars, etc, independently.

She has given some good advice on applying for money for an overseas conference-but it will be up to me to work on where that will be and what conference. I don't think I will be ready for presenting a paper at one though for about another 8-12 months so I'm not stressing about it just yet. She has also read and annotated my writing for draft chapters when needed.

I guess supervision really varies but the university I attend, has really strict rules for supporting research students and our meetings are tracked on a computerised system. We both get email reminders from the Research faculty, if our meeting date goes past the 19th of each second month!

Hi 29200, I empathise with the methodology issue. I'm currently driving myself bananas with all the nuances of different phenomenological approaches and trying to work out which one it is I am doing, so I can tidy up my methods chapter draft. (The draft that is only an introductory draft 3 of what will probably take about 20 different versions by the time I have finished collecting the data and writing this chapter).

One of the things I've found about this PhD is that things change during the whole process. So at the start of mine (given officially I am about 13 months or so into mine-that's the full time equivalent anyway), I was much clearer about what my methods were and why I had chosen them than I am now. 6 months ago I seemed to have a much better grasp of phenomenology. Ironically I know that I know more about it now yet the more I know- the more confusing it is-and trying to work out what I am doing and why is even trickier at times.

I go to see my supervisor and something that was absolutely clear suddenly seems to be gobbledegook in our conversations. The worse thing is that she is a great supervisor but doesn't know much about my subject and has only some grasp of phenemenology. What she does understand is the process of doing a PhD-so she is very reassuring. At any rate, we are sort of stuck with one another now and muddling along together I suppose.

Don't over think it all too much just yet, and just keep reading and asking questions and making some plans. All the plans will be changed later but that's okay, that is just part of the process.

Hi Tulip,

You know if you and your partner are committed, then the 18 months of long distance relationship while you complete your PhD might be doable.

You obviously would both miss each other but you could organise to see each other periodically and in the time when you are apart, you could focus on getting that PhD completed without too many guilty feelings and distractions. If long distance relationships are not 'indefinite', they are not always bad for a relationship. Many committed people in relationships and marriages have to spend some time apart for various reasons, and their relationship lasts and continues afterwards.

You could both look upon this as a temporary way of making sure both parties in the relationship have their needs met while both parties are working towards a better 'shared' future. Your boyfriend finds work that he is much happier in, you complete your PhD, and in the meantime you both can make plans for your life together once the 18 months or so is done.

One thing though that you might need to factor in is that PhD's don't always neatly finish once the funding period is done. The rewrite, submission, viva, and then 'resubmit with minor errors' part of the PhD, can stretch on for a bit afterwards. But who is to say whether that happens for you OR even if it does, whether you have to stay where you are for that final bit of the journey.

Wishing you all the best for whatever decisions you make in the future,

Pjlu.

Hi:

@Hazy Jane, I wasn't worried about sarcasm-but I have a bad habit of always assuming I must have made an error-just a left over hang up from my youth. Even in my mature years, can't quite get over my defensive reactions from childhood. :) (rueful dismay smiley insert-only I don't know how to do rueful dismay smiley). So I thought you might have been gently letting me know. Anyway thanks for reply. Hope things are going well for you in your PhD journey.

@29000, please go and see your supervisor (unless they are a monster supervisor) they should be able to help you. It is in fact their job to do this at these sorts of times. You are only 4 months in. And calling yourself lazy is not helpful and just will make you feel worse about yourself. You may be procrastinating but most likely are doing this because you don't know what to do next. We all procrastinate when we get anxious about what we are doing.

If you have a rough idea of your topic, your question and/or and the general subtopics then look out for published PhD's and journal articles that explore these areas and see what sorts of data the authors collected, their methodologies etc. This will help you get an idea of what might work for you. Though ultimately yours will be different, so don't think this is cheating-it is simply seeing what others have done. Sort of like looking at a map before you go on your own journey.

Think of your topic and just brainstorm any questions that come up in a journal (or ipad or whatever tool you use) and keep doing this. Then look for articles that discuss these, take notes and keep references for your bibliography. Even if you dont use them ultimately in your lit review, they will help you get started.

Good luck and (as Dory said to Nemo) 'just keep swimming'.

Hi Hazy Jane, when I saw your post I was horrified. How did I get to make this mistake for so long without realising. I make many errors but usually am aware of them by now and even though some are now habitual, I usually correct once I see them in writing. So (as you do) I checked with google and found I am not alone: took these from wiktionary. I think you can have both forms actually. Now I really must stop pfaffing (or faffing) about and get back to doing some work. Cheers Pjlu

pfaffing
English
Verb

pfaffing

Present participle of pfaff.

Usage notes

Normally used in the form pfaffing around.

pfaff
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English
Verb

pfaff (third-person singular simple present pfaffs, present participle pfaffing, simple past and past participle pfaffed)

(UK, slang) Alternative spelling of faff.  [quotations ▼]

Categories:

English verbs
British English
English slang
English alternative forms

This one from urban dictionary:

Pfaff
(făf)

1. a cool or awesome person.

2. a fairly common name in Germany.

3. the name of a sewing machine company.

4. a word used to replace the word f#$%, to censor yourself
1. dude you got to get to know this kid he's a Pfaff.

2. hey do you know Mr. Pfaff?

3. Did you know Pfaff sewing machine are the Mercedes of sewing machines.

DrJeckyll, your story is very amusing but alas also so true. And true for many students really,those who don't work, those who do work, undergrads, post grads all. Student life these days can be pretty tough for many alas...

Yes No. 29200 you do need to get serious with the Phd if you want it. But take heart, as others have pointed out, the first few months can seem like a lot of pfaffing about while you try to nail down your topic, get a handle on the literature and sort out ethics applications (if these apply), and data collection plans.

Then there comes a day when you sit at your computer, look at draft intros, draft lit reviews, mangled attempts at methods chapters, ever optimistic plans for trying to hook in participants, revised interview protocols and you think "do I really want this PhD?'. But, in most cases you do...and you just get right back into it for 2014.

One of my supervisors (very experienced senior one who I rarely see) said to me quite kindly before Christmas, "all this pfaffing about is necessary. It is a legitimate part of the process".

However, even as she said this a little voice in my head was thinking uneasily of my own swamps of lazy misery and unproductiveness 'yes, but there is pfaffing about and pfaffing about'. You do need to work harder if you want it.

Hi Frequent flyer, your description of your workload sounds like you have become stressed to a point beyond where you have just gotten into a downward spiral of work and constant routine and activity.

As you say, you will have to let some things go...and that will be hard. You can work part-time, do a PhD and have a good relationship. It is possible but not in the way you have described your life above. Many of us, when we become really stressed, understand cognitively that we have to let go of some things, but emotionally we just seem to cling to everything even more, rather like the proverbial drowning man clutches at any straw.

You may need some outside help or support to help you as you set the limits and boundaries around your work, your life and the relationship. Obtaining some counselling or a very understanding parent, friend/s or mentor might be a good start. Online counselling is also a very helpful support, usually very affordable, easy to access and becoming very popular with many these days from young teens to much older people. So if finding a supportive friend or mentor seems a bit tricky, you might try some online counselling and very possibly your own university may be able to guide you or assist you in this process.

This forum is likewise helpful but while we will offer support and advice and the benefits of our own experiences at times, it can be limited to some extent, we can't always provide the sort of ongoing, informed and personalised support you might need for a while as you start to 'let go' of some of those tasks and habits you have described. Although that doesn't mean you shouldn't get support here-just that initially you might need a bit more than can be offered on the forum.

Best of luck,

Pjlu