Hi Grumpy Mule, I'm going to present a different perspective-which is that at this point in time, I don't think I would disclose all of this to my supervisor or the University. You are only two months into the PhD and probably won't get a real focus for a while, as in many PhD's the first 6 months is spent sorting out your topic and plan of action. So you have to be open to a lot of things and only after you have read, trawled through mega information, or watched cells grow (whatever it is) for a while, do you get enough material to start getting a focus and for things to begin to make a little bit of sense.

You are being way too hard on yourself and expecting (probably because like most of us-you were a top notch undergrad and used to excelling and pleasing your lecturers) to be on top of your game immediately. To provide an analogy, a new Phd student is the equivalent of a year 6 student in primary school (who was at the top of the pack and leader of their school) going into Year 7 in Highschool and all of a sudden realising that they are right at the bottom of the pile.

It is a similar transition and as equally unsettling for many students. So give yourself a break for a little while. Panic attacks, and depression is hard as well, but don't disclose this yet to your supervisor. They probably don't think that you are anything other than a brand new student who like all of us, have gone or are going through a transition stage into PhD candidate and then into base-level researcher.

Maybe you will want to tell your supervisor later, if things do get hard, but when you do, you will have developed a (hopefully) good relationship with them and they will use this disclosure to support you-if you need it. I'm not for hiding things like this-but I would be wary of disclosing too much too soon, when it might not be necessary and what you are going through now, might abate, once you are a little further into the doctorate and more settled. Hope things seem a bit brighter very soon.

Chris, you have got to do what is best for you in the long run-but I'd agree with the poster that said the corrections and changes might not be quite as bad as first thought. Sometimes, it seems huge, but when you get down to it and are methodical, you can just work your way through it in increments and after six months-you'll have it done. Hope it all goes well and it is good to hear that you can go for the post-doc again once you have finished.(up)

======= Date Modified 21 Nov 2012 20:20:46 =======
Good luck Dr J-hope it all works out for you. Sounds like it has been a really rough experience.

I think I would be reflecting on why my friend said that-meaning 'what was her issue?', rather than taking it seriously. I think that most people recognise that PhD's are a great deal of work, although to be serious, most people also don't understand what they entail.

Everynow and then, someone who is a bit jealous makes a snide comment-I wouldn't take it any more seriously than this. But, likewise, if the friend is a good friend in other respects, then maybe be a little gentle in your expectations, and ignore it. If she keeps making them, call her on it.

Best regards PJ

Batfink, I hope you are feeling a bit better. Conjuntivitis can make one pretty miserable. Hopefully the medication will kick in quickly for you. Hopefully you are back on track really soon...

The last post I made for this thread worked pretty well, so I am going to post another. My goals tend to be spaced, as I have my full time job inbetween, and my workplace at the moment is frenetic. I had to get a bunch of work in for a hurdle course that is part of the PhD I am doing. If you are in the UK, it is a little like a 3+1 course, only the 1 isn't a Masters it is a Grad Cert Research-and you can do it over two years, while you take your four years for the PhD. I'm studying Part time, but I have to do at least 6 months of the 1 year in my first year.

But I did manage to get all of the hurdle tasks achieved and the ethics committee have approved my submission, as well as the Director of the group of schools I am looking to collect data from. I completed my concept map for lit review and really rough drafts (really rough drafts for first three chapters).

So my next goal is to (next weekend on Saturday), get my survey finished and linked into the net, so I can send requests to the schools I am hoping will participate in data-before we break up for summer holidays. Then, in my summer break, my second goal is to really get a solid draft of lit review not the sketchy one I have at present.

My goals have lots of time in between though, when I don't do much at all other than think a bit about it. So other than the stint of work next weekend, I will leave study until just before Christmas, so I can finish all of the work for my school and role there.

But, even though my work pattern is a bit different, I am really happy that it still seems to be possible to work this way and move on in the PhD.
Basically using holiday time or small chunks of leave (a day here or there) in big spurts to achieve big tasks, and then gradual increments to just keep things moving inbetween. (I reakon though, that when it is time for a real write up in about two years from now, I will go for around 3 months leave from work to really get a good start.

======= Date Modified 17 Nov 2012 21:45:59 =======
Maisie, I'm no physical scientist so I can't put myself in your shoes. I can imagine how frustrating it is though when you seem to be going in circles, or even just stopped for a bit. And it would make me anxious if I couldn't see beyond this or envison when things might work or start up again.

All in all, it sounds like a pretty tough deal. However, I'm wondering about whether having a short spell away from things might be a good idea. Another poster mentioned a holiday and you answered that you got away periodically on PhD related stuff-conferences, etc.

I go to conferences (like most PhD students) and while I really like them and enjoy the change of scenery, I don't really find that they are holidays or real breaks. On a conference, you are being stimulated, you are getting ideas, you are learning (well hopefully you are) and even when you are socialising at lunches, dinners, or what have you, it is a form of academic socialising. It really isn't the same as a holiday or real break. Just wondering whether a real break of a few days might help. It could just give you the mental space to either:

Move emotionally out of your current state of frustration and worry about the wretched cells (and what they are doing or what they are not doing!
Give you a breather, so that you are relaxed enough to start thinking or seeing things in a fresh light-worry and frustration do not actually enhance creative thinking.
Or even just give the 'cells' some time on their own-who knows maybe they will do whatever you are hoping they will do (last bit is pretty fatuous comment I know-but hopefully you get the gist).

Hope it goes well-ignore holiday advice if you really don't think it will help, but sometimes a little bit of real 'time out' can be remarkably helpful.
(I've just had to add the usual edits to my post again sigh-the more I go into this PhD and work overload, the worse my writing seems to become :-()

Good luck with it Pam- I'm sure you will do really well though.

Good evening-it's night time here and my goal is for the long weekend-next Friday week. Ethics application has come back the second time and has been approved so I can start collecting data. So I need to quickly revise my survey and get it ready to send out Mid November-that should only take a morning of pfaffing about, as most of it is done.

But I need to complete at least a further 3000 words of my hurdle task-draft lit review before I leave it until my Christmas break. So the first Friday evening, Sat, Sun and Monday of November, I need to achieve these two goals.

Can't do much inbetween because work is pretty full on. But its okay still, even though I'm working in blocks, am still on track...good luck to all other one goal posters...

Good luck Manfred...hope plan B spins smoothly.(gift)

======= Date Modified 14 Oct 2012 11:10:59 =======
In my line of work, education, the journals often have two types of article submitted (or maybe three). There are the academic papers submitted either by academics or by teachers who are studying research masters and doctorates (usually with the co-authorship of a supervisor and a university affililiation attached)-these are usually peer reviewed or appear only in peer reviewed journals and they demonstrate or outline carefully the methodology used behind the claims that have been made-and when they make further claims as to how the research might be applied, they qualify precisely the parameters of that application. So while they might show a limitation in scope for an outcome, such as say- 'this works specifically for gifted teenagers who have self worth issues stemming from poverty and childhood neglect in the UK', while it only applies to such a group, you can feel fairly confident that the study's claims would apply indeed to any such teenager fitting this description. (I'm just making this example up-so don't take it too literally).

But professional journals (which also publish academic papers) also include papers by practitioners, which are often by teachers or teacher leaders and they can be very lively, commenting on current practice or espousing enthusiastically an approach that can be taken by teachers or educators. They may make vague claims at the end, which are more of the sort such as, 'while our results are still a little inconclusive, we did find that our participants, all seemed much more engaged and wanted to learn more about this sort of approach.' They are great for rousing enthusiasm and generating ideas and creative sparks (especially for tired teachers, who need a bit of a pep start) but can be a bit limited in their scope and application if they are the only thing backing up some teacher or head of faculty's new program for the year, as they provide limited data and evidence and may not have a rigorous methodology behind their claims-which can be very loosely linked to the 'inconclusive-but generally positive' results. (I tried not to be too wordy here-but it's been a a tussle between brevity and clarity I fear!).

Indeed-as I sit here on my Sunday morning with masses of administrative work to do this weekend for my actual full-time paying job-and guiltily thinking of the couple of hours put aside later today for lit review section for part-time PhD, I wonder this myself-however, I will give a list of reasons that work for me:

1 Because-if you like sports analogies- it is the ultimate research study marathon-and some people like running marathons.
Yes many very fit people exist who do all sorts of sports and never run a marathon-they live and die marathonless without feeling deprived-but some people really like running marathons and there will always be these people.

2 It trains your mind in a specific and very disciplined way. Yes you can be extremely intelligent, well educated, highly creative and considerably productive in society and personal life without doing a PhD-perhaps even moreso in some cases-but some of us want that specific, disciplined and focused training in a school of thought.

3 If you want to publish in reputable journals, you pretty much need one or need to be working towards one. I can spot the PhDless article contributer a mile off in my own profession and accompanying professional literature. Not that what the authors say isn't interesting, creative or compelling but it is often a little less rigorous in its applications and its approach.

4 It formally qualifies you as a bonafide researcher-maybe one at ground floor level-but an independent researcher nevertheless.

5 The qualification can help you if you wish to offer your services as a consultant, advisor, mentor, academic or leading professional within and without your specific workplace.

6 It is a very worthy achievement or accomplishment in itself.


These reasons work for me...although, God knows, I will be glad when the whole thing is over...now back to some very boring but essential admin planning for my workplace for next year.
:-)

I support Human's advice. Haven't read the book recommended but my supervisor has been talking about the latest postgrad group in my faculty, a writer's group for researchers, and it follows similar lines. This group, which is for journal article writiing, suggests setting aside 15 minutes or 30 minutes -where you just write-the idea being this quickly builds to a draft article.

Though with your particular deadline- you might need to aim for a section a day. Have you broken up your chapter into sections based on what you need to say yet? You could write down all of your ideas just in dot point form and then either prioritise or categorise them according to significance or relationship to previous findings or reseach in the field. Once you have either a conceptual map of your data and where it fits, or a list of priorities-it might help you with creating sections and subheadings for your chapter. Then tackle each section or subheading bit at a time-one per day for example-giving yourself a reward at the end of each draft section. Don't be too picky about the writing-just get the conceptual map, and draft sections in a basic form, because you can edit (and edit and edit) later for clarity and cohesion.

People here swear by the Pomodoros site (My tomatoes) which provides incentives and online companionship for writing in chunks-lots of threads include it. Finally, there is a huge wealth of knowledge and experience in a diversity of areas on this forum, possibly if people knew your subject and were studying in a similar area, they might be able to provide more focused advice or assistance and many are happy to do this through private message so your topic doesn't become a forum topic if you don't want it to. (My field is social sciences and education, learning, underachievement and motivation especially for younger teens- so I'm no help here for your science topic, good luck though and best wishes.

======= Date Modified 06 Oct 2012 22:23:25 =======
" I just can't bear the fact that supervisors thought it was good, the examiner's were convinced it was good after the viva but had major concerns before (read nearly a fail), that there is actually major work to do even though supervisors think not, but examiner's do and in the midst of all this is me, feeling like a total failure. Every chapter next re-done essentially. It is soul destroying....My point is is it just goes to show how vague and open to interpretation this PhD process is. Sigh!"
(Quote)

Blackbyrd, it reads as though your supervisors (who know your work-second only to you) know that the concepts, ideas and research are sound . It sounds as though, your examiners (on reading your work only) didn't quite get all of it, but when examining you in the viva, your performance and explanations were good, so they realised also that it was sound and worthy of a PhD. But now they want you to rewrite bits of it so that when someone reads the thesis from scratch, they too also get it completely. Meaning that everything is there and is good (definitely not a fail or an MPhil) but that the writing doesn't always completely convey this to the 'lay' reader. You have been given some fantastic support and advice from other posters who have been there themselves, so this comment isn't meant to add further to any of that, just to offer a suggestion on your comment about why your supervisors and examiners have different views-and that those different views aren't so much on the merit of your last few years of work but are more to do with the 'writing and presentation' of some of the aspects of your ideas and work. Hope it seems a bit better as the days go on...

Diva, it might pass though. A single panic attack doesn't necessarily mean you've made the wrong decision or that you will continue to feel this way. It might be more of an intense reaction ( that with a bit of time and self-care and logical thinking) will abate. I think you need to be quite gentle on yourself and just gradually ease your way back into the mindset and work habits you need to complete this degree. If they don't go away then perhaps get some counselling or friendly support from whoever helps you with these things in your life and consider your options.

But given your decision and the difficulties you have stated, plus the anxiety disorder, a panic attack doesn't sound out of the ordinary and doesn't necessarily indicate any 'red flags' alerting you that this is the wrong decision. And decision making is a process and messy for most of us-for now you are electing to continue in the phd-maybe at a later time you won't...you still have that option if you really need it...but for now you are going on. For what it is worth-I think that I would have made the same decision.

I have found over the last few months that I have gone through a different way of thinking about my own part-time phd. I don't need it for further professional advancement in my own workplace and could actually probably complete a second masters relating to leadership that might be more useful in term's of promotion to be honest-and i don't now really want to work in academia (as I once did). Knowing the way I feel and what I know to be true about my profession and workplace, I have wondered very much whether it is worth continuing...but I am committed now and will complete it. Although I will truly rejoice when it is done and won't be looking for postdocs or further study. And it will help me to publish and write-so will be good in this way-it certainly does develop one in many ways, but I can see that it is just one form of learning-and in my case- no longer a necessary one. So I can understand very much your reservations...but still believe even knowing these, that it might be good to complete and see where it leads and then to get on with life.

Hope this helps...:-) Good luck to you and be gentle with yourself...

Lol-these responses made me laugh but also are relieving...i find wading through endless methodology boring but tedious theory likewise. I find that the most interesting presenters-tell me what they are doing and why quite clearly-give me just a little bit of theory so I'm likely to take it seriously. Present methods (cos you have to) but again do this quite quickly and then spend a reasonable amount of time on current findings or -if too early for findings- on what has come up in the research so far and how and why this makes a difference.
The most recent phd seminars I have attended have really highlighted the 'so what?!' factor when presenting. Good luck Natassia but I am sure you will be great!:-)