Hi Joyce, sorry to hear about the supervisor situation and the dispiriting news of more rewrites.

You mentioned this one would actually 'do something'. Do you think that they might be a better supervisor-I mean, do you value their judgement more than the last supervisor/s?

Maybe all of this is part of the final difficult rewrite process that makes the whole thesis more cohesive and polished (a process that seems to blight the life of everyone at the final stages before the big submission)? Can't say much else...only because I can imagine how devo you feel at present-so will just wish you luck and best wishes(gift).

======= Date Modified 06 Nov 2011 21:05:52 =======
Huhu, you don't need to compare yourself to your friend, who seems to have an unpleasant attitude for all of her achievements. You doing a PhD is wonderful-even if it is hardgoing right now. We need 'intellectual capital'-we need 'knowledge'. They are valuable in and of themselves but just because you can't see them- people often don't value them as much. You are a repository of knowledge and this knowledge will enrich you, allow you to make a positive contribution. Your PhD has value and merit as well.

PhDbug, your friends sound rude and as if they want to make you feel bad for some reason.

I have children but have not had a partner for two years now and some members of my family and female friends like to point this out...or always ask me if I have met anyone yet but rarely ask me about what I am actually doing or about some of the really good things or interesting things that have happened this year.

At first I felt really bad and it seemed as if everyone around me was happily married within partnerships but then I remembered how terrifically unhappy I was for many years in both partnerships and how much better my life is without a toxic relationship. Yes it would be good to have everything, who doesn't want it all-but the reality is that most of us don't get 'everything' or at least not all the time or all at once.

Why do people try to make a doing a PhD something negative? I can only think because they are a bit jealous and want to belittle you and your achievements or they have no understanding of it whatsoever. I used to apologise for my being a bit academically inclined, as if it was a weakness not a strength. I don't think it is related in anyway to my unhappy relationships-they are more to do with making poor choices and early life experiences. The PhD has nothing to do with them- I would be doing one with or without a good relationship.

Huhu- do you have to spend much time with this 'friend'? You know also, it takes a lot of courage to keep going when things are tough and the outcome is uncertain-don't underestimate this or what it says about your character.:-) Sometimes, our friendships change and we outgrow them. Maybe you have outgrown this friendship or maybe it was once more supportive. Whatever has happened, don't use it to beat yourself up. You are doing just fine:-).

======= Date Modified 06 Nov 2011 10:10:12 =======
Huhu, it doesn't sound like your problems are small but you are probably going to have to force yourself to do some positive things no matter what you feel.

As Bewildered has said, I would still try to find a counsellor-whether that is a telephone counsellor or even a friend. A friend of mine this year went through a bad time with workplace bullying and harassment and, as her friends, a few of us were available for fairly extensive calls and visits just to help her through it. I didn't begrudge her this and I don't think your friends would either. She also found a proper counsellor as well and went for a visit. You might well be able to afford one or two sessions with a private counsellor if you paid for them or if your family helped you out-and often only two sessions is needed. It usually costs about the same amount as a decent top or half of a pair of shoes (depending on the shoes that is-I'm thinking reasonably priced trainers). As a mother, I cannot imagine minding at all if one of my grown children needed support and asked me for help here- I would gladly pay for a few counselling sessions for them.

I think Bewildered's advice about visiting a doctor just to see whether you could get anything to help with the crying and depression is really good as well. These supports might help by just giving you enough of a lift so that you can make some plans-small plans-and stick to them. Such as forcing yourself to have a coffee with friends every other day and just getting away from your PhD or going for a walk.

Exercise and lots of vitamins are absolutely brilliant for assisting with depression-also Vitamin D3 really helps-it got me through a shocking patch of seasonal depression and overwork earlier this year during our (my) very cold winter (I live in the coldest part of Australia-similar climate to UK-just a little warmer overall).

I know it all seems overwhelming and like everything is just bad or going wrong but some of these thoughts are part of the cycle or spiral of negative thinking we get stuck within once depression gets hold of us. So you have to take baby steps. Do something nice for yourself every day. Force yourself to do a little bit of work for the thesis (do it in tiny spurts and reward yourself). Stay in touch with friends and don't isolate yourself and look after yourself carefully-make yourself eat and do positive things.

Don't worry about a little bit of weight gain-most of us go through this periodically-seems to be part and parcel of being female. That tub of caramel icecream in the fridge is just too nice to resist at times.

But exercise, make yourself look and feel good from the inside out by taking care of yourself and keep on going...you can do it...yes you can.

======= Date Modified 02 Nov 2011 20:13:03 =======
No no no Mooni! He isn't that smart, he isn't the only person who can be calm and never blame you (which you say other men do) and he isn't your father! He is a teacher/supervisor who is supposed to be calm, patient, and to guide you through this process (not that they all are -it does sound as if you have a good one). But professionally, that is what they are supposed to do and it sounds simply as if that is what he is doing.

He will have his faults, he will do all of the usual awful things all people do, and if you did 'get together' and you had lost your PhD but 'gained love -or him- in the process' boy will you resent what you gave up for this ordinary flawed human when he is off his pedestal. And don't wait around either until the end-think of all of the really nice guys out there you will be saying 'no' to over the next few years, simply on a day dream of a possible future together once the PhD is done.

======= Date Modified 01 Nov 2011 20:10:06 =======
I think we all feel a bit like that from time to time. Before I decided to do the Masters and try out for research-after quite a few years of being a teacher and just bringing up my children, I used to look at people who had careers and lives that I envied- especially the academic ones. I remember thinking how on earth do you have this big house, these kids, all of these degrees and now you are getting your OA for this marvellous cure or this social project or whatever.

However, after some years and now on the pathway to the Phd, I can see that to some people, my own qualifications and job, could seem pretty good (not all-its pretty ordinary really). My house is still a renovation project and while I have a good position in my workplace and it is managerial as well as teaching it is certainly not the highest status in my workplace (and it is only secondary teaching) but compared to where I was many years ago, a struggling single parent with no degree at all and a lot of debt, its pretty good. Lots of people in my workplace have much nicer houses, cars, etc. But it is only when I think badly of myself, that I really truly envy them. I also understand that they prioritised other things sometimes to get those really nice houses and some people were just a little bit luckier as well.

Finally, I think it is really important not to assume that people who have the most marvellous achievements and things, are necessarily unhealthily driven or unhappy or not nice people. Some of them are super achievers, have worked hard, are, in fact, brilliant (not like those of us who are just ordinarily smart and hard working) and they often do deserve to be where they are.

There is something healthy and liberating about accepting oneself as being quite good enough, and still being able to admire those people who just can and do achieve a hell of a lot more. We all have a right to walk this earth-we all have a place and contribution to make-and doing a PhD is no mean achievement, even if it isn't discovering the cure for _______(insert whichever disease you want in this space!).:-)

Forget him as a romantic interest. You have no choice-and stop making connections; however small. Be really business like and friendly, keep a sense of humour but put up those boundaries right now! You must, for your own sake and for his. It will feel awkward for a while but then it will be okay again...

You might need to 'sign post' to let him know that you are not interested (even if you do like him). You know it is possible to really like and be attracted to someone, to even fall a bit for them and to make a decision (for whatever reasons) that this is not to be. So have a bit of compassion for yourself and for him (but keep this to yourself) and publically follow your supervision rules and procedures to the letter.

Finally, do some things outside of the Phd and interactions with your supervisor. This will help you with a sense of perspective and will mean that you don't focus so much on the relationship aspect of things but only on the business side of the PhD. Sounds harsh, but you (and he) will be happier for this in the end, and you will very likely get your PhD as well.:-)

I'm sorry Tea4two, this sounds like an awful situation to be in. My own personal experience is that you can't let bullies get away with it or they will continue. So when being bullied in the past, I've found taking steps to stop this or to stand up to the bully has had positive results. However, having said that, I do get that in your situation, you don't want to be the one who loses if the university close ranks a little. And sometimes you just need to stop it happening to you- the situation is too tricky for you to really stop the person bullying those around you.

However, you can still go to student services and find an admin person there OR counsellor who will listen to your story (in confidence and in a safe environment). They should be able to provide you with advice and strategies with EITHER what to do about your supervisor OR will give you personal strategies so that your supervisor finds it less easy to bully you and moves on.

I might be misreading your text, but it seems that in part of your post you still worry about what your supervisor thinks about you and get drawn into his game at times-like being drawn into justifying your own actions when he is clearly ranting and going into a rage. You don't need to do this. He lost the right to your good opinion when he started being abusive. You do not have to justify your responses to him. Good luck Tea4two.

======= Date Modified 26 Oct 2011 21:23:50 =======
I am a few weeks into part-time PhD, but not in another country. However, when I did my Masters I was in another state (Australia) to my university and supervisor and in the Australia the distances are so great, it might as well be another country (distance wise that is). I completed everything for that thesis by distance while working full-time, and it was hard.

I found I could talk a little to my grown children (two of whom were still at home) but only to point because I'd bore them and I really couldn't talk much at all to most colleagues, who asked after it politely but didn't really understand what it involved. So at times, when I was worried about something or upset or just needed a sounding board, I had to either use this forum or talk myself through it. (The supervisor was very busy and hard to contact at times).

This time round I am only a few kilometres away from my university and supervisor so the difficulty will mainly be with managing time-for example for our first meeting I have to actually take some formal leave from my workplace just for around 2 hours, because my workplace is so busy and the supervisor has a lot on as well. So I'm not so bothered about distance but will still have to work hard to manage time. However, I really think it is (and will be) worth it. (Emmaki-you have almost finished after four years part-time-well done! That is pretty amazing-I am hoping for 6 years).

Good luck and hang in there-you know even when you do find fellow PhDer's, your topics will be so different, you can only swap war stories-a professional dialogue about your topic is difficult because topics and knowledge vary so much.

Is your supervisor actually physically chasing you-I mean out of the room?! Did he actually kick the post doc? Surely this sort of thing isn't okay...even by crank supervisor standards? You must be able to report this to someone! I don't think it is a question of fighting or retreating but simply standing your ground and if this crazy academic is physically bullying you then go to someone in your admin or building and complain.

You won't be the only person to experience this and if he is that 'out there' in his behaviour, the Dean must have some idea. I say go to the Dean or if you are worried about going behind his back and possible repercussions, find someone in admin and ask their advice about what to do.

It's really sad that you are going, but thank you for all of your thoughtful, caring and wise posts. You might think that you have to be brief to save energy but I tell you what, you can teach wordy people like me a lot about writing succinct and intelligent posts that encapsulate intelligent and sensible wisdom. Best of luck Bilbo-like your namesake you are going off quite quietly but you will be sorely missed.

Ive got a good memory for generalities and a lousy one for specifics...can't forget anything in its entirety-which can be a problem. But I know you said something about preferences and then said at one point your name was 'Ian' so perhaps I've conflated two discrete chunks of text into one not quite accurate memory. Anyway, hopefully noone is upset about any form of nomenclature or name. (Point in case, I have a surname that no one ever knows how to pronounce so I answer to anything that isn't vaguely insulting and within the ball park range).

And sorry Alyona...I will stop hijacking this thread as OF NOW:-)

======= Date Modified 21 Oct 2011 21:42:13 =======
======= Date Modified 21 Oct 2011 21:37:37 =======
Hi Matt, I wonder how many 'thinkers' suffer from stress and anxiety issues? I think it must be really common judging by this forum and it seems the PhD process enhances that. However, will 'not doing' the PhD stop the stress and anxiety issues? Or will it just stop the ones that are related to the PhD?

I just don't know that going back to doing a Masters would be the right thing to do though...it might make you feel temporarily a little better because the structure is there but some part of the doctoral process has to be that awful going it alone bit, where you create new knowledge and become (at the end) an independent researcher.

I think we all get worried that we don't have the right background for our topics-because there is just so much to know about a discipline, subject or area and we sensibly understand and acknowledge the huge amount that we do not know...

People always tell me that in public (in person or making presentations) that I seem really confident and that it seems easy for me BUT it isn't. I have my big doubts (like everyone) it is just I cover them up a bit more effectively than others and finally Ive done so many stupid things in my life, I'm as used to failing at things as well as succeeding and so after some heart ache I just get over it. But I do suffer from more anxiety than most and I think that this must be a common issue for many 'postgrad research' people.

So what I am trying to say is that what you are going through, you are not going through alone. It seems to be a common part of the process (at least judging by forum items) and it seems to be tied up with the process as well- a part of the doctorate that you just have to go through.

You will have learned things over these last two years, absolutely, but it doesn't seem until much later that you realise this. I am only starting my doctorate so am in 'honeymoon stage' but during the last few months of my Master's thesis, I thought part of me was going insane... and I imagine I will get back there when I do the final doctoral write up in about three or four years (I'm a part-timer).

I think that if your supervisor is confident that you can do this, then believe them-they sound really understanding but academics don't usually beat about the bush-you've got this opportunity because the university and its teachers believe you deserve it. Hope that lots of people can provide more reassuring advice-best of luck and don't feel as if you are alone...gtg my puppy Charlie is destroying my screen door!:-)and I need to let him back inside.

Sorry Alyona, Mackem_Beefy has stated on another thread that he likes to be called Ian, and I was just impressed about the translation so I replied to him as well as to your post. I wasn't calling you any sort of name.

However 'Mackem_Beefy' is right in that I think the question needs to be more specific if you want more responses. Best wishes pjlu

======= Date Modified 20 Oct 2011 15:43:31 =======
You are amazing Ian! (Sorry Alyona-can't offer much help here).

You might need to exclude school teaching from that category of 9 to 5 jobs as well, Sneaks. While the holidays are really good (and basically form the time when part-time post grads like myself get masses of reading and writing done), you still end up working much much more than the five day week and well after 5 pm more often than not. In fact most of us would work to some extent in our holidays as well but not all of the holidays (thank God) and not at the same frantic pace.

But I do like my work. However, I would find it hard if I didn't have some project outside of my paid employment-even with family, friendships, life etc...just need something that has more meaning than just meeting the employer's expectations and raising generation after generation of grateful (or quite often not so grateful) adolescents.