Hi Ishi,

The application form for my university (which had to be completed and submitted online as a pdf file) only allowed a certain amount of words for the proposal. The expression of interest was a flat 300 word minimum. Then after a meeting/discussion with potential supervisor, I had to submit formal application which included a section for the 'research proposal'. I had followed an online suggested format from some US university and managed to get my proposal (in brief) to about 1300 words (their recommendation was 1000-1500), only to find that the online form would only accept about 5-600 words maximum. So in the end, I abbreviated the 'proposal' to three longish paragraphs-that included why I had wanted to follow this line of research, my basic starting research questions and some of the literature that backed my ideas. I checked this approach with someone else who had successfully applied the year before, and they said that this was all that was needed for the formal proposal for the application but that I would work on a much more formal one once I started. But not immediately- I think you get some months before this is required.

Congratulations Walminski. That's really great news...maybe once the numbness has worn off, a sort of quiet happiness will settle in, ala Bilbo or Frodo after the big quest (but if you're only 30 then that sounds pretty boring) so instead, I'm wishing you a joyful, wild and wonderful happiness instead, perhaps to be found on your travels in the continent!:-)(up)

Congratulations, that's wonderful news.(up):-) And only three spelling mistakes-pretty awesome...

Hi Pineapple, speaking as an outsider and reading your recent post about the new dates for viva-it doesn't read to me as if they expect you to fail. It seems to suggest that they think you need a reasonable amount of time to reduce your thesis length and they are going to give it to you. Which basically sucks when you look at it from the perspective of being tired and disappointed and 'over it' and just wanting to complete BUT from a different perspective- the one where you have written and researched a great deal and now just have too much data and too many words and need to reduce a bit- well being given a few months to do this is more likely their way of supporting you so that you do complete and hand in this thesis. Hope you feel a bit better soon.

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Ive finished a Masters also and am applying for a Phd. I will receive a research training scholarship (which pays for fees and includes small grants for conferences but does not include covering living expenses); I will be doing this part-time.

Because I'm not moving and was adamant that I wanted to be able to talk face to face with my supervisor regularly (found having the uni at a distance quite hard during Master's supervision), I applied to my local university which fortunately has a great research reputation.

I had to complete an expression of interest (which gave a brief outline of myself, qualifications, proposal and key authors I would be using). The uni then contacted me and suggested further contacts and potential supervisors-but I had a few weeks of to-ing and fro-ing with regard to emails, phone calls and an informal interview before they finally set me up with the person who I hope will be my new supervisor. We then took about two weeks to organise (formally) a time when we could both meet.

We have had a formal discussion (about an hour in length) and she has made suggestions for my proposal, which I will submit with my formal application and referees. She has also suggested two or three names for secondary supervisors (I have to ring and visit these people as well-gets complex doesn't it?!!). I was tossing up whether to do a professional doctorate or PhD but she has strongly encouraged me to apply for and complete a PhD after overlooking my initial expression of interest and after our discussion.

I am now in the process of finetuning my formal proposal (after considering all of her suggestions), contacting my old supervisor and another academic for references and hoping to organise a meeting with one of the suggested secondary supervisors. As I work full time and have a bit going on, I am hoping to have all of this completed by Easter so that the formal application and all the supporting material is formally submitted then. It's a lengthy process but I have decided to just really apply for this university for the reasons stated above. I am fairly confident I will be accepted, especially as I only require the research training fee costs and not a living stipend or scholarship. My potential supervisor was pretty excited about the whole idea so I think she will be keen and will fight in my corner if needs be. I am hoping that this process means that I can start later this year- ideally, I would like to commence formally around September. (Though I will do preparatory stuff before then).

It is certainly a 'full on' process just applying for the damn thing (and you have no real idea until you do apply). I remember thinking that I would just be going through the same sort of process as when applying for other degrees. (Very naive of me).

However, I know many people apply for more than one and think that this would be a really good idea, especially if you are looking for scholarships that include living costs and travel costs, etc. Best of luck to you btw(up):$

Thank you both for saying such nice things. It made me feel a bit humble...so thank you and best of luck.:-)

Hi Mud,

I'm not going to make any suggestions regarding how you feel or taking further steps regarding the university and plagiarism-and am only on the application process for the Phd right now (just stating where I am coming from-my knowledge is going to be limited). However, I do know from family and friends that this sort of experience is not uncommon and in most cases, the Phd students were not able to do anything in a legal, official sense. Most of them had to make a decision to leave the situation as it was and just focus on getting their Phd and moving on. (not necessarily physically-just in a mental sense).

But, what I wanted to ask is- other than this specific situation, is your Phd under any threat? Because right now, that would have to be the priority wouldn't it? How long is the first supervisor on sick leave for? If the second one has only a Masters, then they can't really supervise you properly-are you able to approach a third person for these reasons (who can help in the interim until main supervisor comes back from sick leave)? I'm just thinking from practical perspectives here...If you have a supportive person to go to-you can just avoid the second supervisor for a bit other than when you really have to and it might help keep her in check also-if she knows that someone else (with a Phd) is monitoring your work.

The other point is the isolation bit. Can you do something to prevent yourself from being isolated as you say you are. It is easier for someone who is bullying to do this when the person they are targeting is somewhat isolated from the group. However, if you can 'overlook' what the second supervisor has done (no matter how justifiably angry you feel), get yourself a temporary mentor who you can work with, and get back into the group-you yourself will be in a much stronger position and able to move on with your actual Phd work. I can imagine that you feel really angry and devastated-so am not minimising your feelings here-just thinking about what you might be able to do to move forward, without going down the deadly legal-formal complaint road-which rarely accords winner's laurels to students.

Talk to them. It might not be as bad as it seems once you know what is going on. But you do need to bring it up (well in my humble opinion anyway). I know I would fret until it was sorted...but I'm thinking that it might not have anything to do with how well you are doing. What I mean to say is...that I wouldn't necessarily infer that they were trying to replace you because you weren't good enough...

If it were me I would also bring up (I would be direct but sort of nice and tentative) the use of your words and phrasing...saying something like "I can't help noticing it really seems to replicate what I am already doing...or have I misinterpreted this??"

Hope it all goes well...others might have other ideas or ways of going about it, so I am just saying what I would do in the circumstances...I've found from past experience that people usually appreciate a pleasant but direct approach and things are never as bad as I imagine them in my head when I'm alone!!!

Thanks Ady (and your reply was really clear-not all over the place at all). I think your advice about the modules is really good. As a matter of fact it reminded me that whether I do the Phd or the EdD (currently I am applying for both and seeing what they offer), I will have to do some modules outside of the doctoral project (both degrees require this). And the modules offered do focus on different types of methodology so that will be really useful.
Thanks for the confidence builder as well. Will let you know of the outcomes.

I wish I were good at knowing when to call it quits on a relationship going wrong. I always hang in there for far too long, ignore all of my intuitions, make countless excuses for the other party and blame myself for more than 50%.

Really sorry to hear you are feeling like this Bonzo. How far through are you? Is it a couple of years to go or many more? It's just that it sounds like you are going through one of the 'self doubt' questioning stages that everyone talks about or writes about that happen within the phd.

If you love teaching and the second masters and higher dip ed would get you the sort of work that you love (and enable you to take something away with you from all your hard work thus far), then this might be a step. But you know, I'm not where you are at present so I can't answer your questions.
So, guess I'm just trying to say...don't let this get you down too much...glad to see (read) that you have fantastic support from your loved ones-that's pretty amazing isn't it. I think they would support you whatever you do...hope things seem better soon.

I am in the stages where I am being matched up to a potential supervisor who will advise me on drafting my research proposal before formal submission and application. I am absolutely thrilled about how quickly this university (a really good one and only a few k's away) is responding to my inquiries and applications. No complaints there at all-whew!:p However, the potential supervisor who Ive been assigned to (by the Head of Department) appears to have a research profile that is pretty much math and math education oriented. My background is humanities and my Master's thesis was pretty much qualitative. In my proposal and the limitations section of my thesis, I said that I would need to do more of a mixed methods design with a larger population (and longer time period) for any real results (the thesis mainly brought to light what the key issues were) but now I am looking at this supervisor's profile and internally quaking!

She seems nice enough otherwise-really friendly and quick to respond and I think I would be her first doctoral student. I really don't think they are setting me up but I was quite shocked initially when I clicked on her profile. I am hoping that I am being placed on her workload, because I would be considered fairly likely to complete, therefore an okay first supervision? Not the other way around I hope! I am just thinking though, our background knowledge is likely to be quite different in many areas?

I meet her for the first informal meeting in about 10 days time, so I will find out a bit more then but I am trying to see what was behind the thinking of the Head of Department. My expression of interest was fairly comprehensive and explicit, even in the word limit given, I don't think my areas of interest could have been misinterpreted.

What have other people experienced? What sorts of things do you think are the most important in a supervisor?

Perhaps an aspect of this would also be analysing people's attitudes towards these animals and how they have changed and developed in relationship to time, place and culture. This in turn may have an impact on the animals survival, migration, etc. Also the one's that didn't survive? Why-did people realise their value-were the products these animals provided replaced by something else due to technology or some other advance or change? How does this impact on the overall relationship between people and such animals-is the relationship different depending on the people and their cultural values?
There could be a very interesting book or departmental publication at the end of it.

Cornflower, I know you have separated from your husband, but were there no shared funds or resolution of finances with that separation coming to you?
Or has that all been resolved and gone into your new living arrangements? It seems as if you have been left with nothing, but if you and your partner were not destitute then you must be entitled to some of the money that you both were living off when you were a 'unit'. Even if he were the primary breadwinner (which it sounds like) you both were still in a relationship together (living relationship that is) and both contributed to that relationship for some time. Even if you hate his guts, you would still be talking to him to in order to help end the relationship and resolve all of its constituants and legal issues ??? Can you get some financial help from him (but not as a favour) as part (a part mind you, not all) of your 'settling' and resolving this relationship?

This might seem very mercenary but marriage (or defacto) is a serious partnership and no matter who leaves who or why the marriage ends, neither partner should end with nothing. The other thing to consider is do you have some old friends (not from your current city) who would be in a position to loan you the money for a short period of time until your stipend comes through or you can access a credit card and pay them back. I would also take up your supervisors offer and actually tell them about your difficulties-usually when I say to someone 'let me know if you need...etc etc' I do actually mean it and your supervisor has been a student as well-they will remember and may be able to access some uni funds you do not know about. Good luck and all our best wishes...

Hi Sunflower,
I'm not doing the doctorate yet but am the same age. I'm just gearing myself up for my doctorate which will probably start July/August. I am also a practitioner-an educator-teacher and administrator and I have just finished my Master's with thesis, just so that I could get to this step and begin a doctorate. (A dream of mine for around 16 years or so...) I will take at least 6 years to complete because I will be part-time and will continue to maintain my fulltime job. (Think about my age when I finish!!!It is really scary).

Okay...so the stats are over. I know that while I have a fair bit of energy and drive, it is not the drive of my youth by any means-and I'm sure by the time I finish, I will be even more 'mature' in my approach. Howewer, what I do have right now is stamina and wisdom. I'm in it for the long haul, I can run reasonable distances at a good pace and I know (believe me after this Master's) I know !!! what that long haul might be. My children, bar the youngest, are now the age of the very young PHd'ers here-I started on the children early in my life!! Aggh!!! But it is okay really, really it is...age is relative and we want and need people of all ages to try and do good things-both young, middle and old. Help, I know a woman who is doing her second Phd and she must be in her sixties easily-she wants to write a book and this way was the best way to get some support for her local history project.

As Bilbo said, you are in a place that many fellow doctoral students would envy by now. Heaps of people are three or four years in and haven't written anything at all. Three drafts is great and all your research is done!!! You will do it. You can never compare yourself with others in a project like this. Heck Colonel Sanders was in his sixties when he finally refined his KFC chicken and made it big-after decades of trying...where would my kids have been without KFC as a treat when they were young (and no they don't have any weight problems either to any fastfood nazis out there in cyber space).

You are by no means a fraud...we all feel like imposters. When I got a really good result (just this week) for my MEd thesis, but it wasn't the absolute highest one (that when I was younger and full-time and in a different discipline, everyone thought I would get), I was questioning whether I had the right to go on...well f@#k that thinking!!! That sort of thinking gets you nowhere.

Life is what you want and you do and the process that you take in between and you know that. I know you do...

Maybe your colleagues do have a bit more energy and drive but maybe they don't either. It always looks as if everyone is prettier, more competent, more intelligent, more energetic and the truth is, we usually do the comparing when we are feeling a bit down, so naturally it feels and looks that way. I've found that people are also good at making things look as if it is all fine-we all put on a good face-but everyone doubts and everyone has their issues. When you were in your thirties, you had issues, they were different issues though. When these people are your age they will have similar age related issues (even if they do have a phd-it's no magic talisman against difficulties).

You are absolutely fine...you are okay...you will finish your Phd (several years younger than me when I do) and it will have been worth it. And as Bilbo mentioned, you are in the worst stage-the writing up is the absolute pits....don't give up and don't be 'down' on yourself.