That's a really rough deal Cornflower. You are not giving yourself enough credit for how well you are coping with this. Like everyone else though, I think you need to talk to some trusted people in the flesh as well as online. You need to take care of yourself right now...that might mean taking a little breather or it might mean immersing yourself in work, whatever it is, do it...I think everyone who reads your post is really feeling for you right now.

Great comment Ady and an interesting post Mog! I loved the way your caustic professor outlined this as well- it was really clear. I've wondered about this in relation to how I think about and construct my theory of learning and education-which actually matters in education even though teachers often don't think it does. I think on the whole at times I am a solid constructivist but like Mog-am humanist very often and then at times am absolutely (in my most cynical moments) at rock bottom a functional pragmatist...whatever it is -it needs to work...and in the long run we are all carbon! Great posts guys...

Hi TPK,

It might really depend. Usually the scholarships that provide an income (stipend) are pretty competitive and a 1st equivalence which would be a GPA closer to 7 would be required. How much of your Masters is research and how much course work? Most universities here in Australia want a distinction minimum (6) in course work and a distinction in the thesis as well (which is a separate mark) before accepting you for a doctorate.

However, there are exceptions even with this. For example my state university recently won all these international research awards and have upgraded their entry for research and state that a 1st (HD equivalent to GPA of 7) is the entry for a Phd only. And most Aust. university sites state that their stipends and scholarships are highly competitive. So the Phd is accessible generally with marks like yours in most universities (other than mine! :( ) but you usually have to have a similar mark in your thesis or research paper. AND those that come with dollars are pretty competitive so these usually go the students with the 1st class results.

One other thing though, if your topic is really interesting and in an area that is a real goer, you might get a scholarship with the distinction (GPA 6 equivalence) because the uni or department or some academics really want to explore this...good luck anyway.

Thanks Ady, I will. Cheers :)

After four and a half months (submitted mid September but they claim they received it mid October) I have received my results for the Master's thesis. Got 78%, which is a distinction or a H2A (H2.1). So...very relieved really. It means I can definitely apply for either a Phd or Ed Doctorate and I will qualify for the 'no fees' RTS scheme. It has been accepted without corrections or changes (something I am really happy about as I don't really want to look at it for a while) and for any poster who reads this who is concerned about word length- mine was way over length and this seems to be okay, although I have yet to read reports, so need to read them before I am sure about the extra words. So I think I will give myself a few weeks just to be happy it is done and then start to get the formal applications ready for the EdD. But right now...it is so good to be free of it8-)

My understanding is that it is 'equivalent in status' to a Phd, but generally aimed at practitioners who are not aiming for academia as an end point. The research is focused around work place, practitioner or industry-based research and you can write a thesis, or present a portfolio or series of papers, etc. The work must be equal in standard to a Phd and the equivalent in word length. If you do a portfolio or series of research projects or papers, then usually you also have to write a rigorous theoretical paper that links or connects your work or locates it within a particular theoretical framework.

You often go through with a cohort of peers (but it depends on applicants) and usually do some course work that is pretty rigorous and that sets you up for your own project/s and/or gives you a broad range of research skills before you really begin your own project.

Most advice is that if you really are looking to become an academic, then you would want the Phd. Not because a Phd is of a higher standard but because that is the pathway for academia. Generally professional doctorates are for those who are keen to remain in the workplace but also wish to push themselves regarding professional development, write papers, present at conferences, write policy, etc (if in government or education), that sort of thing- but are not looking to become academics at universities as such. Hope this is helpful :-)

"One of the other phd students commented that my project is interesting but not useful. "

It is always best just to ignore this kind of statement. Says far more about the person making the comment than it does about your project and could be reversed. Maybe they are secretly worried that their project is 'useful' (whatever that means in whatever context related to whatever issue?!) but really boring.

I'm wondering also about the advice your friends are giving you to 'drop out'. That's a bit over the top isn't it when you are just having a bit of a confidence issue. Don't listen to this advice and do listen to your supervisors (who sound great btw)-hang on to them!

Today I decided to take some action. I had rung my uni postgrad advisor (admin) and left messages with supervisor, to be told they will follow up as they can and it should be soon (that was a week ago).

So I went into my state university and asked whether I could speak to anyone about the Educational Doctorate or further research. (I've already put in an expression of interest which went down okay but I was told that I had to wait for my results before really going further-which is what I have been doing...very patiently I might add).

The academic I spoke to was really supportive and friendly and basically started me off on the process today. It turns out I can begin the applications for my professional doctorate-will still need Masters and results-but do not have to have an H1 or H2A for this course as the Masters and all my previous academic and work experience will count. But I do have to enrol in some course work as they have changed all Phd and other research quals, so that everyone has to complete at least two units of a Grad Cert Research before they go into full research degree. But everyone has to do this not just me and it should not have fees provided I am accepted to do the doctorate afterwards.

So I will soon be contacted by three people who represent respectively the full process:
research academic advisor-will ensure I am clear about everything and help me with overall package
research admin- will tell me about the actual processes and give me all the paperwork for them
and faculty professor...
The professor will interview me and ultimately decide on my acceptance within the faculty and university and will really 'grill' me. I was warned to be prepared and absolutely clear about why I wanted to do this, and to discuss all of my background experience, my goals and aspirations and my previous credentials.

The academic I spoke to was great though. Really pleasant and affirming and informative. The process will take a while, he warned, but I should be ready for a July start. I spoke to him about the delays in my thesis examination and he said nothing but was fairly understanding and not really either surprised or bothered.

I can't believe the difference in actually being able to go in in person and talk to people. The campus is pretty empty now as it is our summer and things don't kick off for most students until late Feb but I feel so much better. So that's it...I've started the process and even if my thesis results are not as great as I would hope, provided I survive this professor and his scary interview tactics, I'm in. Did manage to complete some of those other tasks as well...but I feel really relieved...have sort of overcome the limbo to some extent.

It's probably one of the worst things that's happened to me. Tried to explain it to my family that it's kind of like getting a B and not an A; and I only accept As

:-([/quote]

It is a bit more than just an A and B though isn't it. It is like an A gets you straight on to that academic pathway, while B means you have to go a longer more winding route and may not get to the destination in the same time-or with the same people. Be easy on yourself while you are on that rollercoaster.
In the long run, who you are, what you have learned and what you do with it are far more important things than the green light from your university crew. Hope things get better soon...

Hi Sheryl,
(ive only done a masters thesis at present-so respectively you are more than welcome to ignore advice if it doesn't fit-but my thesis did follow all the usual steps for most theses and dissertations even though shorter-it might be helpful).

What about your introduction and literature review? Are they written in draft form yet? I know the intro can/will be changed the more you progress through the other chapters to really reflect your findings and what you've done-but even working on a polished draft form of this can really sharpen your focus as to what your thesis is all about. Particularly if you work on the background to the problem and the statement of the problem parts of the intro.

The literature review also will be honed and changed, but working on it will remind you of all the material behind your thinking (hypothesis). Finally, what were/are your methods? It sounds like you have finished with your research tools (???-not sure from post?), so writing up the methodology behind what you originally proposed and what you have done might assist to getting some of that writing down.

Hope this helps but as stated above, just ignore if it really doesn't apply to your circumstances-I'm sure you will get some other really helpful posts.
Cheers:-)

Congratulations Dr A! What a wonderful achievement...hope all around you (in the flesh) are letting you know how proud of you they are! have a fantastic week of celebrations.

I am going to start a doctorate late 2011 but I will be doing a professional doctorate (an EdD). I went as an undergrad in my late 20's early 30's in Humanities and like Ady did really well. I even had my honours topic and potential PhD picked out-or in the initial development stage. I was keen to do some work on Islamic female authors and gender studies. But I was a sole parent with 3 school aged children to support and finally chose to do a PG Dip in Secondary Education instead of my honours year and to get full time work to make sure that the children had a better start than I did. Then a few years ago (9 years after first studies), once my children were pretty much finished with their own schooling and were either at uni or in work, I started back in Post Grad Education courses, looking to specialise in a Special Ed or Counselling area but was drawn instead to seeing out my earlier passion for research and academic knowledge and achievement. Plus my lecturers kept encouraging me to think of this area again.

However, while qualifying for doctoral studies through my Master's thesis, I've found that this Masters 'taster'of the Phd process and all the changes wrought by my life and work since my original undergraduate work, has made me reconsider the pathway I will take. I am still really keen to gain a doctorate. I love achievement (in a personal sense-not a competitive against other's sort of way) and I do have a passion to both really improve my own knowledge, but also to understand and put into place changes that can make a difference (even in a minor way) to students, their families and teachers. So knowing that I love research but that I want now to also use it in a practical (albeit minor) way in my profession and also wanting to ensure I complete in 6 years (part-time while still working) has drawn me to the professional doctorate instead. I will still have to submit a thesis and it will be about 80,000 words but I will do it on research in my workplace and similar workplaces and the course work and cohort I go through with will be structured around really practical lines. I've also found (through some internet research) that I will not have an 'unusual' profile for a professional doctorate (that most people undertaking them have similar goals, ages and roles and responsibilities to myself) and this really gives me encouragement for some reason.

Now, finally I am happy with this choice and can say I have no regrets about the past and other difficulties, that it makes sense but it has taken me some years to come to this thinking and this particular choice. Some awful experiences with my master's have helped prepare me mentally for the challenge as well. So I'm having a bit of a break to get ready and prepare but am definitely continuing-oh and I won't mind being called 'DR" in my mail but will still be 'Ms" when I purchase air tickets! Thanks cakeman for the post and others for their interesting replies-it always really helps to both write about it and to read all the different views and experiences of others.

Really, really sorry to hear this news Jepsonclough. What a blow! Would you also consider 'sixth form' college teaching? When you are teaching the 16 plus group it is an entirely different prospect to the younger teenagers and you do get to use your expertise-perhaps not quite as much as with undergrads but you still stay involved with your discipline. Far fewer discipline issues with this group as well. Are you doing a phd with your current employer-could you cut some form of deal with them if they do let you go as part of the redundancy package regarding the part time phd fees? Will your consultation team offer a package of incentives for the redundancy-I'm thinking here, (based on my ex-partner's experience) is get to financial advice if it is offered-although my expartner ultimately chose to use an independent financial advisor as he said the uni team were rubbish-but your's might not be.

Orchid, is there anyone else who can read your thesis for you and offer guidance and help? Maybe one of the other faculty members or a student friend (one who is doing a phd or tutoring or something for example?). Or is there a student centre at your university which offers this sort of support? Many people have other readers who help them through the writing, editing, submitting part as well as their supervisors-it is fairly common. It doesn't mean you are going behind your supervisor's back. It might be a good back up to have at this time. Thanks for your best wishes and I hope that you get some support and some sleep as well!:-)

Sorry, TPK, I might have seemed a bit negative on my post on your thread. I'm suffering from being a really organised and quick writer who wanted to complete her master's thesis in two straight semesters, to a person who (after all the hoops and checks and supervisor issues) will finally graduate two plus years after having completed the thesis part of the Master's degree (let's not even think of the course work done prior!). So it has made me a bit cranky about this topic in general.

It is true that not all universities in Aust. will let you complete within two years, but a few will and if your uni does and you can do this-you go for it! Just be prepared though for the actual process taking longer than you anticipate-not your part necessarily but the whole part. Remembering that you are not in total control-to some extent you share all of this with your supervisor as well.