Just for the record, the Phd parameters you have described TPK are not true for all universities in Australia. In fact most of the one's I've checked out insist on 3 years minimum and a word minimum of 70,000 words or so. Some have an 80,000 minimum, but the thesis can be a bit less provided that other papers bring the word limit up.Many have now introduced the coursework aspect as well (my local state university has, for example as of 2011 and has also introduced the viva voce as well).

No comment about the other aspects and good for you if you can do it in this way. Just making sure that people realise that this one example does not necessarily generalise to all or indeed most universities in Australia. BTW forumites-spare some positive thoughts for all of your fellow postgrads and students attending University of Queensland and others-St Lucia was in the flood zone (main UQ campus is situated there) and of course for all involved in the floods (goes without saying).

Hi Orchid,

what a really tough situation to be in. All credit to you for your patience and persistence so far as well-especially given all that you have done so far.

However, I would be wary of submitting without your supervisor's 'look over' if this is the second submission of your Master's thesis-is this right? Especially as you do not have access to the examiner's indepth reports?

You submitted it some months ago without much final supervisory help and the examiners wanted some major revisions. And they've given you six months to do these changes before another examination of this thesis? What I'm really puzzled over, is if they did this, surely they gave you guidance as to what revisions you need to make? (Sorry that this is all questions-just trying to work out what is going on from this and your earlier post-but feel really annoyed on your behalf).

However, it seems that whatever information you were given, it hasn't been clear or particularly helpful. That is why I'm thinking that (even though you may be incredibly frustrated, angry and upset with your supervisor) you still need them to support you through this process at this point in time.
I have had a Masters situation with some similarities-still waiting for reports and hoping I don't need major revisions). I really wanted to submit without the supervisor as the delays seemed really endless, but realised how much I needed her guidance.

What I did, (I felt like reporting to higher people but I didn't-I actually have a really nice and talented supervisor but one who is/was equally busy). However, I did discuss this with the postgraduate advisor (an admin person), who listened without judging either my supervisor or me, and then told me what the processes were to help me stop panicking. She also sent very nice and low key prompts to my supervisor, who did get round to looking at the thesis and signing off on it. But it operated on a very different time-line to the universities " official" timeline.

If you have to re-register for this semester, do it...it may seem very unfair, but is probably more common (across the board-even if you don't know any one personally who has had this experience) than you think and it will give you the time to work with your supervisor on making sure this submission of your thesis has been looked over properly before final submission and reexamination.

Do talk to whoever is there to help you, like your postgrad advisor or admin assistant-they do understand how upset students can be when this happens and usually have an idea about the next step you can take and they also understand that you don't want to cause trouble but that you want to know what your options are. You probably also do need to be patient...it is hard, but you have invested much time, effort, emotion and energy into this project and you deserve to give it the best shot.

It sounds like she will read it and give advice (from your quote) but expects a few weeks to do this-which seems really hard...so what do you do in the meantime?? I went over minor little things-but given lots of time to review it-I also noticed some bigger issues, started working on them and the supervisor was pleased that I had starting fixing them already when she started giving me feedback. The process does finally end...although it often feels as if it never will and it also feels to some extent, that everyone else is going fine and it is only 'you' who is going through this. Don't let these feelings spend too much time in your head though; many of us go through similar processes and situations and we come out of the other side okay and a bit stronger for the experience. However, I would still follow up on getting some feedback as to why your thesis needed re-submission so that you can work on these aspects.

I can answer just a little bit about this with regard to Master's levels and Australian universities.

If you do a straight research masters then it is pass or fail just like the Phd. But even to get into the straight research masters in most universities, you would have to have an honours or honours equivalence of H2B or higher.

Sometimes, with a great topic and experience behind you (in your area), you can get into a research masters with just honours-any level- or a pass in a Master's coursework with a passing research paper or minor thesis. (Pass mark here would be 50 to 59- credit is 60 to 69-distinction is 70-79 and High distinction is 80 and above-in almost all universities here-but there are one or two exceptions still).

If however, you want to get into a doctorate (Phd or -in most cases- a professional doctorate) that comes with a RTS (research training scheme scholarship-this pays your otherwise humongous tuition fees but not much else!), you will need either an honours degree or a research masters or a masters that offers a 'substantial' research component-either a minor thesis or research paper. The honours degree, or minor thesis or research paper IS graded and your grades determine the outcome of future research work at uni in doctorates, straight research masters or Mphils.

You have to have the equivalence of H1 (first class or high distinction level) or H2A (distinction level) generally for a Phd and most professional doctorates. H2B (merit level- in Aust. usually known though as a credit when it comes to the actual mark or grade) will get you into research masters and some professional doctorates.

So for example, I did not do honours here (not because I didn't have the grades but because in Aust. it is an extra year and I needed to get a practical qualification in that year as I had a family to support and needed to find relatively reliable work afterwards). So for example now, when I want to do a doctorate, I have had to complete a masters that includes 'a substantial research component' in my case, a minor thesis of 25,000 words. This will be graded, and depending on my grades, will determine what the next step is for me regarding research and qualifications.

I am hoping for a H1 or H2A so that I can easily qualify to do a doctorate ( in my case a professional doctorate part-time while I work). However, if I get a 'merit' or a H2B, I can apply for a pure research masters OR can try to persuade my universities that all my coursework marks and previous work and experience allow me to request an exception to the rule. It's messy though that way, and some of the more 'reputable' universities don't allow even this.

Long answer to a short question- hope it answers some queries regarding Australia. Just one more thing, sometimes Phd's here get prizes. Though the mark is a pass or fail, it is still possible to be given some award for an amazing doctoral project but this is dependent on each universities own prize pool as well.

Hi Health Horse,
Ive been thinking about your post and that you are in the health sector and need to qualify one thing in my answer. If you are looking to be a clinical practitioner-for example within counselling or something similar, the Masters is generally regarded as the preferable qualification. It isnt the only one and there are counsellors and social workers who have other forms of qualifications and much experience and who qualify as registered counsellors in Australia. But the Masters (in terms of being a fully qualified and licenced counsellor or similar) is increasingly being offered by universities and other providers as the end point on the pathway to this form of work.

I found this out because for the last three years,while I was really struggling with what I wanted to do and wondering about my own study choices, I researched what would be needed if I wished to qualify in this area rather than going further into the education sector. I made the choice not to take up this course for other reasons.

However, having made that qualification, post grad dips are still fine as entry points, and are offered by many universities as bona fide qualifications to get you into this sort of work in the health sector as well. Good luck and best wishes-it isn't easy making choices like this is it? Hope it all goes well.

My experience in Australia within education, is that while a Masters is valued-the PG Dip is seen as a relevant and useful professional qualification that is very well regarded. Once you are working, your work experience counts for more than qualifications-if you are qualified that is.

In other words, if you have the necessary qualifications to get to an entry level point for whatever it is you are doing-then how well you do in the job is more important than qualifications alone ( I am not talking about academia here but education in general). I've been on several interviewing panels and know this is how these panels have operated. They appreciate the qualifications but are much more interested in who the person is, how well they meet the stated (and unstated) criteria and whether they will learn and grow within the position-whether they will be competent in the job they have applied for and whether they are flexible enough to develop further-note develop further does NOT need only to include further formal tertiary study.

So if it really would be good sense financially and with regard to your personal and relationship needs, to exit with the PG Dip now and find work and then maybe consider further upgrades later (or not depending on your long term goals and situation), then don't worry about it being perceived as a failed Masters. I can't speak for the US though.

I agree with Cate though, think about your options, clarify your goals with some people whose advice you trust, or some university counselling or guidance staff and then make the best decision for you. if you do decide that you really want the Masters at this point in time, it might be worth it to knuckle down and just grit your teeth through the next few months knowing that it will be over shortly. But there is no right decision overall-just the right decision for you at this point in time.

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I wonder how old your supervisors are? I mean those who are grumpy about getting married. Congratulations Keanbean, that is great news and you must be feeling so happy right now!!! There are always people who see the negative side of everything but don't let that get you down.

I guess with the feminism arguments-well a fair few older feminists fought really hard for women to have a choice today-and as with men that choice should include ALL options. Feminism has not won any points if it means that women have to say 'no' to marriage, relationships or partnerships and put off having children (if they want them) in order to establish a career. If choice means 'either' 'or'-marriage and kids versus stellar career- then feminism has given us a really limited model to operate from. Thankfully, choice means just that-from the full spectrum of opportunities.

There are plenty of women who have managed fabulous careers and have still had partners and families, partners and families who have flourished. As , of course, there are those who haven't for a variety of reasons; life is pretty complicated and choices sometimes have unforseen and unfortunate consequences. I think that we need to honour those feminists who did fight hard and had to give up some options in order to really realise their dreams and win that fight and thank them for the choices that we have today. But we do live and operate in a very different milleiu today as well-thankfully. One that has been made possible by the battles those older feminists fought, but one that offers much more to women-or women in many cultures anyway. One that means you can have a partner and children and a career even if it is a bit of a juggling act at times.

Congratulations again...much happiness, luck and love and a successful Phd to you Keanbean(gift)

No I'm still holding to the spiders...it was a beautiful moment!!! But seriously folks, I will butt out of the thread now...it is a really interesting question though and given what the UK prime minister said at the end of 2010 about 2011, no wonder postgrads in the UK might consider it.

Hi Canonly. I'm really glad Emmaki put the UK thesis link up for you. I can't send on the theses I used from my former university's library for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, as I've finished the Masters course, I no longer have access to my old university's library (online version) and it is really far away, a plane and a train ride away, in terms of going there during the day. The uni I plan to attend for doctorate (if this ever happens-cross fingers), is local but I can only use it during the day until I am formally a student there.

I browsed around dozen or more theses from the old university's library of educational theses and printed up bits of the one's that seemed to be using similar tools to see how they reported. But after having finished this thesis Mid September, after the big post thesis paper clean up, I shredded the other people's work (that I had on hard copy) and deleted any online versions-because I was really grateful to use them as a guide and as a fellow postgrad from that uni (we were encouraged too by our own advisors), but felt I didn't really have the right to keep them longer than I needed to and likewise, don't really have the right to send their work on to you, even if I could. It is sort of like messing with other people's work-if they were being formally cited, it might be different.

Does that make sense...but using the UK link yourself, sounds like it is absolutely okay- because it has been put there for that purpose and all the work published on it has been published for that purpose. Hope there are some really helpful theses there for you...good luck. Must be difficult working in the circumstances you have reported-hope it goes well and you really 'nail' that methods chapter. :-)

Good luck but I bet your preparation meant that you don't need it...you will achieve this on your own merit. Nevertheless best of luck and hope you hear relatively soon.(up)

Good luck Walminski...btw who would you cast to play yourself if it went to Hollywood...and would there be a romantic lead as well? I loved the post about the 'straight to dvd'-lol. Anyway now it must be eight days...you can do it though. Cheers...:-)

yeah, I bought this house three or more years ago-my first house-I'm a late starter with houses and cars and things...and it has the most awful green carpet in the lounge and dining that hails, I'm sure from the late sixties. Underneath are the most beautiful floorboards but if I try the do it yourself thing, I will do a really ordinary job and most likely have nails sticking up, etc. So I'm going to save and get professionals in this year some time. It will make a huge difference in my house...Ive been dreaming about it for three years and this year it is going to happen...but got to save the dollars first.

Hi everyone, this thread is just to help me stay sane and motivated...

I am currently thinking that I should get some award just for patience at present. I am waiting for this final examiner's report and final results-having only taken well over 3 months (!!!), and without which I can do nothing regarding formal applications. I really do just have to wait as people have taken holidays and they phoned me (but got my daughter instead) just before Christmas and told her that one report was in and was good and I should have a nice Christmas (what does that mean??? Pass good, merit good, distinction good? anything else???) and that the other report was still to arrive! But relax and have a nice Christmas-well I've done that!

If the other report differs markedly from the 'good' one then they have to fight it out between them with my supervisor as referee. (On the plus side, it must mean a pass if nothing else-even if the other report is dodgy-they would have to agree on a pass-that much I know).

I am telling myself this is not going to drive me crazy-after all I have no intention of actually formally starting until July-so why worry. I'm pretty sure I am going the Professional Doctorate pathway as well-but this will still require a very large dissertation on top of minor projects. And I have to have a H1 or H2A grade in order to be accepted for either PhD or EdD. Or argue the toss citing previous marks, etc. Or hope all high coursework marks balance out an H2B thesis...So that doesn't change much...In the meantime I can:

Complete as much as possible of the formal application package- minus final marks
Go over my preliminary proposal and see where I think it needs tweaking
Get all my work stuff ready-and my thinking about work goals and plans ready as well
Get a new study space sorted-I'll be part-time so mostly will work from home. This year two of my three children will be at home with me, they've moved in while saving for bigger and better things for their own lives in 2012 and both will want study space as well.
Make sure I keep a good eye on my work,life, study balance-don't want to go completely insane:-)
Keep up running...keep up running...loove running...definitely helps with sanity and stress
Re-read articles, update articles/lit review stuff- bit hard as no longer member of uni library until I've enrolled in new course so have to use library as browser for a couple of months-can't order online stuff either but will cope...
Do boring household stuff like clean off bathroom ceiling mould
Save money for interesting household stuff that other people labour over like completely polished floorboards in lounge/dining


There will be more...but enough to go on...and just be philosophical about it all...this is a journey and a process...

Hi Canonly, are you 'weighting' your data-or is all your data of equal relevance? You've already said some of it doesn't apply to one or two research questions, so provided there is some form of reference or brief explanation of this-it would be fine to include some data only under relevant questions. Logically, when you think about it how could every instrument or tool apply equally to every question? So therefore, being discerning about how and where you present it, shows good judgement and a sound understanding of the tools you have used and why you used them.

Secondly, have you actually analysed (even briefly in your head) this data. In other words, I know you are reporting it at present, but does it make any sense to you yet beyond being all the data. Or are you still at the stage where you are swimming in data? Yvonne Bui's 'How to write a Master's thesis' has a great chapter 8- how to write and present results. It is excellent to read, though as I warned before, be prepared once you have done this precisely to text book excellence, for your supervisor to get you to write and rewrite-that is if you have a supervisor like mine. But the Bui chapter 8 really helped me present data initially.

The Yin book mentioned previously is excellent. What I did to help when reporting data, was I went into my university's library of theses, downloaded quite a few, and read their 'results' chapters to see how other people did this. This helped with seeing how it could be done, especially as I knew these had been written by people like myself, with similar circumstances, who had successfully passed and published their thesis at my university. What I did find was I had to read bits of quite a few theses, as they all end up similar but unique-and work out what was the best method based on a collection of ideas from others, the two text books, Yin's and Bui's plus heaps of chapters from other textbooks, all downloaded from online library resources, Jstor or other places. Then the sup came along and blasted it all into a new shape anyway...but that was after I had done a huge amount of groundwork.

I know I've answered before along with others, so I am not counting myself as a senior here, just someone who has been through the process to some extent and is getting ready to go the next step with a doctorate, but I get the feeling you really want a precise answer. Perhaps someone can give you that but I really believe that to some extent, you've got to take the advice and then strike out for yourself not worrying too much about if it is perfect.If you can get hold of Bui's book, check out page 183 and afterwards. She goes into quite a bit of detail about the research questions here.

Hi Keenbean, I'm not doing the doctorate yet but have realised these last two months, that I cannot 'not' do anything unless I am really tired or I've structured in a 'nothing' session. Sort of like 'i'm going to sit and have a coffee in the garden and reflect for 20 minutes or so'. And while I like being with people and keeping company, there is only so much of that one can do before one needs some form of space. So, I think most people do things...or they watch Tv on the couch...most people structure their time with activities of sorts-even if these activities are a conversation with family or friends, or cleaning out the pantry, or painting the back door...it is something.

Who is to say what is the right sort of something. Lot's of people at my workplace and my family have told me to stop doing so many things that involve study in particular or work ( I actually work hard but not as hard as people think). And I've followed their advice and sat for a while, reflected, journalled, learned to run, bought some more music, watched some more movies and comedy...socialised with friends, got back into cooking,read some more, spent quality time with family but there is still time even after doing all of these things...so what is wrong with using that time to develop an idea or further some research instead of sitting on the couch and watching some boring television-or doing more in the garden-the garden is okay.

Do what is right for you Keenbean, and if you use this time to intellectualise or follow up some ideas but you have given yourself time to rest or relax and your family and friends have had time and you have had fun, then what is the problem. But if you really want to not do any work until after the 2nd or something, then you will actually need to replace your thesis with another activity. Just sitting there doing nothing will not avail. Have a great New Year.