Hi Joyce, I really empathise with your situation here as it seems to reflect my own Master's thesis only too often. I found that the PostGrad admin person sometimes helped push things along because she would email or make contact from the perspective of the whole 'timescale' thing. But her influence was limited.

What I also found when I stressed about these things to my superviser and others at the university, was that they were all sympathetic but had the attitude of 'this is real research-deadlines are not of the essence here'. I found this very difficult because (like you) I work within a school and deadlines are important and (like you) I wanted to work more intensely in my holiday periods and always seemed to be having to do major corrections at the same time as reporting or some other major work cycle. I did work in my holiday periods but not as much as I had planned for. I had everything planned to the nth degree and every plan fell through...no exaggeration...every one-all due to things that were completely beyond my control-which made it all the more frustrating.

In the end, I had to be philosophical about it even though I either wanted to cry or did cry every time one of these situations arose. Last Christmas it was forgetting to submit my ethics application-this Christmas it is being the last person awaiting an examiner's report-they have to hold over my results...

I also had work like a Trojan once my corrections came back and just have no life or break during those periods. It was really hard and I don't think it is the best answer or what you want to hear, but I did manage it, which is why I'm telling you now. You will be able to manage it...and it will end and you will submit your thesis. Hope you have a nice Christmas despite all the mahem. I need to have breakfast now and go out on an early morning forage for the last minute food shop before the big day-oh Joy! Merry Christmas Joyce-not meant ironically.

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I know I only emailed the tutor yesterday but I wish that she would hurry up and reply - making me paranoid that she doesn't think that my ideas are worth replying to! (This bit is a quote but hasn't worked properly in the quote box because I edited it!)

Don't be paranoid...heaps of people don't respond quickly or even regularly to emails. My Masters supervisor often overlooked mine, mainly I think due to the many she received and also because she was really busy always. The process at the universities over here is often really slow. I received some quick responses from the PostGrad admin support person at the uni I am applying to at present-it was still over a few days and that was a really quick response in my experience! I was amazed at the response to be honest. Once the results are officially in, I imagine that my proper application will take several weeks, even if it continues to be a quick process. One person's application pretty much took a year...not sure why but she was pretty annoyed.
Good luck with it all then...I really can't do very much other than wait for my other examiner's report and final result before any more steps are taken.
Once that happens I can approach new supervisors and begin the formal process but I have noted that the UK people often have apps in, etc before their actual results are through...so I know it can be different in the UK.

I'm applying for the later part of 2011 as well. I completed my Master's thesis three months or so ago and have a few more days to await the final examiner's report from this before I can formalise my applications for a doctorate.

I've submitted an expression of interest to my state university (which has a very good reputation and would have the advantage of supervisors being on hand) and received a very positive response. Expression of interest took a bit of work but is only the beginning. However, I can't apply with the formal application (which takes a bit more work!) until I know through my thesis results that I have received the equivalent of a first or 2.1. This is because I will be applying for a RTS scholarship so that the doctorate is fee-free. (If my results are less than this, I can still apply but will have to completely self-fund). This university is not the one I completed my Master's at, but I want my supervisors within driving distance not flying distance (live in Australia so distance is a big part of life here sometimes-with the states so far apart from each other).

I am studying part-time while working full time as well and my job is one that takes a fair bit of my life but I am strongly inclined to do a professional doctorate rather than a straight Phd, because I can tie in my work with my research rather than having a bit of a split. But to do either with the fee scholarship, in the way I want, means that I have to do well in the thesis, so I'm a bit impatient this Christmas as I think the final report will come early January, now given the holidays. However, I have been told by the university that my topic matter is fine and they have already approached supervisors and have three who would be prepared to be on my team (they have a principal sup but also have a team overall).

My area is education, curriculum and partnerships and my Master's focused on qualitative research only but I envisage a mixed methods for the doctorate and have put this forward in my expression of interest proposal and in the wrap up to my present Masters thesis. I'm keen to begin but also know I need a break after the last stint of study (while doing this thesis) with my life going pear-shaped and a new and very demanding role in my present workplace happening at the same time as the thesis-so I am setting it all in motion but do not expect to formally start until next July-August. In the meantime, I am focusing on sorting out my work life and having a better, work, life, study balance overall.

Thanks for putting up this post, it is really good to see some others also completing or having just completed masters who are beginning the doctoral journey-sorry my reply is so lengthy-just was writing this out in part, because it helps with keeping focus and perspective. I secretly think that all of us who wish to take this sort of research, writing, exploration journey must in part be obsessive thinkers....you know the thoughts go round and round and round like a hamster on a wheel!

Hi Canonly1, look I'm really not an expert. Ive completed a Master's thesis and only just today heard that one of my examiner's reports is in (and that it is good-and that is all Ive heard after three months! and I'm still waiting on the other examiner's report!). Plus my thesis is qualitative only. But I would think not- you can't force the data or instruments to fit the questions-you have to use the data to inform your findings.

So if the some of the data instruments don't really fit a particular question but do inform another question-then you would use the findings from the instrument to inform the question it suits but you would have to discuss this fully in both your methods chapter and possibly in your discussion chapter, I would imagine. The discussion chapter is where you tie all of this in together-results chapter is mainly results- method chapter outlines why you are doing what you are doing and the theory behind your method. Results chapter is descriptive rather than analytical. But as I think others would agree-each thesis is unique-so while there are rules as to chapters and a sort of lock-step process to follow-each final thesis has its own story. I think if you checked out some the literature recommended, focusing on methodology, you would get some more definitive advice. That's the great thing about research-the reading never stops.;-)

Hi Canonly1, in my Master's thesis, I too sometimes found my supervisor unavailable when writing up so I followed a textbook (How to write a Master's thesis). The text book said write up under research questions-which I began to do but when my supervisor found out, she made me rewrite it all to do precisely what Walminski said earlier 'tell the story of your research'.

So my results (using qualititative methodology-not mixed methods) were not written up in response to the questions. They were written up to reflect the emergent themes and trends that came out of all my data). By the time I came to discussion, I was discussing the research questions in a far more integrated and complex way that included emergent themes and the overall thesis proposition. To be honest now, it would be hard to put this into a text book-step by step- approach because the process becomes so holistic in the writing and rewriting although by the end, you have certainly addressed the research questions and the conclusion and/or final summary reflects this.

But my thinking is also, just get a start by writing up what you think should be written up and under which heading. Once you've submitted to your sup, they will certainly start correcting it and telling you how it needs to be reshaped. Don't be worried about being wrong...hope this makes sense and some of it is helpful at least.
(snowman)

Hi TP, I can't remember where I read this online-but I did read it and it really struck me as a useful piece of postgrad information. Someone (who had a doctorate) was discussing aspects of the doctoral journey or aspects of the thesis and he commented that at points during this journey, you would feel as bad as you ever had in your life. Basically his theory was, whatever depths you had plummetted previously for whatever reason (be it depression, grief, or some related difficulties), at points in your thesis you would sink as this low.

His theory was not that the thesis was causing it but the unique conditions of writing a thesis and the various difficulties experienced would inevitably bring on these feelings that hitherto had been felt in some other desperate situation. He claimed that the worse you had been through, the worse these experiences in the thesis would appear.

It struck me as quite sensible actually. Ive only completed a 25000 Masters and yet at points in that journey, I was absolutely gutted-almost as gutted as I had been at many points in my life. Anyway...my point is...if you can separate all this angst and bulls%$T from your actual MPhil thesis and recognise it as part of the process, it might just give you the final impetus to either complete it or go for the research masters if you really need to. I agree with Baltar, don't do the PG Dip. Not that there is anything wrong with them (Ive got one and a PG Cert as well-they are fine) but you were talking about passion and interest and what a shame to allow that passion and interest to be defeated by disillusion with the academic process. You deserve to have a thesis at the end of all of this-perhaps going the research masters will be a happy compromise. Good luck...

Hi AC1973, I understand how frustrated you must feel but just to let you know...from the perspective of many people outside of academia (and most of the working world lives and works outside of academia) an MPhil seems pretty good. But a lot of ordinary people would think it was some really high qualification that had a theoretical (aka the philosophy word) aspect and wouldn't really know much else about it but that it sounds quite hard and as if you are a smart person who seriously thinks a lot!

Honestly, I only learned about this particular qualification once I really started exploring my options for postgrad research and work people who have been introduced with one, have been thought quite learned by others. It is only when you are on the nitpicking pathway to academia only, that these qualifications start to really reveal their hierarchies, I would think. You have had a really tough break it seems, so I hope you continue and get that MPhil in spite of all the machinations going on.

Hi Ginbee,

I completed my Masters thesis after an upgrade type PG Cert and also did two Masters course work units before the thesis, so that now when I do apply for a doctorate (in a while-having a breather for a few months) my referees will be fairly current. However, my former partner was an associate professor and often was approached by exstudents for these sorts of things. Sometimes the time gap did make it a bit difficult for him to comment effectively though. He tended to be a bit reluctant to comment after around a 10 year gap. However, have you thought of approaching your old lecturers anyway and possibly finding a contemporary back up- maybe a professional referee who is more current- as well? It might help with the time lapse from the University's perspective.

The other thing is that possibly the University might want you to do a course unit or two just to make sure that things are fine...which sounds really annoying. It certainly put me off at first, but I finally accepted that I had to do this and now of course have no regrets at all. But I was pretty p$$$d off at the time, I remember.

Beercat, I will be well and truly into my 47th year when I commence my part-time doctorate next July/August. Just for the record, I will have just learned to run 5 k's regularly this year as well-another long time life goal.

If you are self-funded and part-time and choosing to do all of this for you...then provided you have people who can supervise you in your SUBJECT (note nothing related to age-it's topic that is important), you will be fine. For the record, while I plan to have a few months gap between completing my Masters and commencing the doctorate just so I get my new job and some other things sorted, I had no problems with my state university checking out my prelim proposal and happily accepting it-once my Masters thesis is passed and I graduate. They were not worried about age at all. It was all to do with whether they had people with some expertise in my general area.

Good luck and go for it...I presently work with two people who completed their doctorate in their mid fifties and sixties and have no regrets whatsoever.

Hi Jojo,

how is your examiner situation going? I posted earlier, having been in a similar situation, but with a different supervisor (one, whom I respect and get on well with but who is really busy and seems to overlook things from time to time).

I found going the administrative chase-up route more effective than trying to contact the supervisor. I don't think the admin or course conveynor chase ups are 'nasty' in anyway. I just think when they send reminders and notices of the sort like "well this situation has to be resolved, we have a time line here, can you fix this by such and such" and do it fairly neutrally, it just has more of an effect, than a 'clamouring' student.

I followed the wait time and rang the PG admin last week, just to check whether my thesis was with examiners and she assured me it was. It will probably still take a while. She cautioned me that it was a really busy time for them all but that I will hear once the examiners are finished. That was fine by me...I just want it to be examined-I'm over the indignation bit by now after having fretted over these sorts of things for a couple of years.

So, my feeling is, as with the poster (Joyce, I think) below, just use your admin people to help follow up for you but give them time as well and in the meantime focus on the rest of your life, because the examiners take a while anyway. Good luck

Hi Jojo,

I submitted my Master's thesis some weeks ago. I had no idea about who the examiners were to be (we have to have two-one internal and one external) but just trusted my lovely but overworked and a 'bit lacking in a sense of time' supervisor.

When I contacted admin three to four weeks after submission to ask whether I was to receive a written acknowledgement (standard process), I was emailed by the PG officer, who said she had received all the copies but was still waiting for my supervisor to submit examiner's names.

I wasn't exactly surprised, I guess, this sort of thing has happened before. I decided to allow till the end of the month and then I would contact the PG admin officer again to get some news on whether the examiners had been appointed and had copies of my thesis. If she says they haven't, I am going to ask what my next actions should be given that I would like to graduate at the end of the year and I do want my masters. If I don't get much help from the admin officer, I am going to officially notify the acadamic course conveynor of my area. (That's the academic who oversees all the people in my particular degree/subject who are doing theses) and request that some action be taken. I don't want any blame or repercussions- I just want my thesis examined and to have a result before December. So I plan to be firm but flexible in my approach.

I think it will work-my supervisor is a nice and very supportive person who has given invaluable advice- and the course conveynor is pretty organised so will probably ensure that things get moving fast. I am allowing a bit of time here and there because after the last 2 years, quite frankly, I am over this psychological bootcamp experience and would like to end well. without too many tensions or bad feelings-if that makes sense. Don't know if this helps but I do know how frustrating this experience is-the whole Masters thesis experience has really taught me how all of this is a process not an end product-although the end product is obviously significant.

I've completed my Masters and am awaiting thesis results and examination now. It was set up a bit like an MRes and I felt exactly as you did at the beginning. Over the course of the time (I did it part time so it really took the better part of 3 years all up-including course work and methods), I went from knowing very little about research-to knowing enough at least to take the next step.

My supervisor said that you learn it by doing it-and I would have to agree-you read and read and read but you actually learn how to go through with it by sweating through it so to speak. But it is hard to encapsulate this. I was doing qualitative methods and found 'How to write a Master's thesis' by Yvonne Bui pretty helpful. But then, I had to redo everything once I had followed her structure because my supervisor pointed out it was 'too textbook'-not the research but the write up-had to really structure to honour my own research (so to speak) and really individualise my chapter headings and structures. But that's a way off anyway.

It does come to you but it seemed mainly to come to me-one step at a time-I worked out how to do step one by reading and doing and asking and then I could move on to step 2. Finally at the end I had to go back and edit everything a hundred times because what I had learned months before no longer represented the complexity of what I was trying to establish later-but if I hadn't done it the way I had, I would never have got to the end stages anyway-if that makes sense?

Sort of a chicken and egg thing-you WILL be fine though. It is really normal to to feel like this. Best of luck with all the journey ahead of you.:-)

Congratulations Alpacalover-that is wonderful news. Well done and hope the champagne keeps on flowing....

Hi-how infuriating! Just to reassure you-I'm aware there is a world of difference between a Phd dissertation and a Master's thesis. Even so, my master's thesis was really difficult-the hardest academic challenge I've taken so far and I sweated it-lot's of effort, lot's of tears, lot's of self-doubt. I'm what would be regarded as a very good student-so if it was really hard for me, then it is hard for most people.

There is another world of difference between a Master's thesis and a course work Masters course. However, even course work units and research methods are usually quite stage above your basic undergrad-graduate and Bachelor of Education/teaching type units. As colleagues who have completed coursework Masters would attest too.

She just sounds like a pita (pain in the a@@!) who was giving you the troll treatment in the real world and, note, did she say she had experience in any of these herself...no...just leave her to her ignorance and get on with your dissertation. Cheers!

Thanks so much guys-and to Algaequeen and Helena-special good luck and congratulations,

cheers all

pjlu