Hi Dan,

I agree 100% with everyone else that a masters is the ways to go ( even if considering a phd in the same feild as undergraduate ). You are considering engineering? If you you do an engineering MSc or Mres in an engineering feild you are considering then this could be very beneficial. You will get the opportunity to consider what engineering topics you may be interested in pursuing for a PhD/ have an aptitudes for.... do some practical and theoretical course work which can be good preparation for a PhD and scope out potential supervisors which is a very important aspect in its own right.

In general, physics seems to be a very good undergraduate degree to have regardless of what profession you want to get into. I know quite a few people who have made the transition from Physics to Engineering without any major problems

Consider it from my perspective: I went straight from undergrad ( mechanical engineering) to a phd in another related but different engineering feild ( i had no backround) i didn't know the supervisor (asshole). I really hated the project, didn't really make much progress and dropped out in first year.

I'm now doing an MSc and I feel I would have been in a much better position to tackle a PhD had I completed an MSc  before. This course has been very useful preparation for research in the feild, I've taken modules in a number of different topics and I now have a much clearer vision of what I'm interested in ( research wise) and we have had a lot of contact with different lecturers in the department so its a great opportunity to get the skinnie on potential supervisors. I've found out quickly enough who the really good and bad supervisors are here, but I wouldn't have known otherwise if id just jumped straight to PhD.

hope this helps

rjb

@ mighty mouse

I've just quickly flicked through this but I'd agree with a lot of what has been said.

I think your problem, is that you judge people by your own standards and I mean this in a nice way: You are obviously a good person and you wouldn't necessarily act in this way to other people, but unfortunately there are a lot of people that are more than willing to do this to you and this isn't limited to just academia. I've worked in various different jobs over the past few years: IT, research and development, retail, customer support and the one thing I've found is that you are always going to get people taking pop shots at you for no particular reason other than the fact that they have just take a dislike to you.

Unless this person actually has a direct influence on your project forget about them and ignore them. They may have an axe to grind with you for all sorts of reasons: your better looking, your smarter, you get more attention and praise from your supervisor than they do, you went to a better undergrad uni or your have more friends than them.... I often find that when people make a concerted effort to put other people down its usually cause they are jealous or they feel threatened in some way.

There is a lot to be said for growing a thick skin but If you feel this is bordering on bullying, then don't put up with it and have a word with the department about it. If its just annoying banter. Give as good as you get or just let it slide,

hope this helps

rjb

now that i think of it. this thread is a little confusing. If are you actually doing a survey then thats fine


But it sounds like you are looking for other people to come up with good excuses, for why your PhD might not be working out, so that you don't get your ass kicked by your sup. If this is the case, you are wasting your time and I doubt your supervisor will take generic excuses you pulled from the net as justification for lack of progress. Do you not have any idea yourself why a PhD might not work out?

everything effects it: supervisor guidance, departmental politics, the project itself: how ambitious is it. how big is the learning curve?  obviously the student themselves has to be one of the most important factors, how motivated are they, how independent, resourceful, clever, how well suited is their undergrad background to the project and fundamentally how good of a researcher are they? some people take to it like ducks to water and other not so..

the odd bolt of lightening can intervene as well!! I can comment from the perspective of a Phder who took early retirement: If i am being honest I would say lab research is not one of my many talents but I had next to non existent supervision and a host of equipment, interpersonal problems, so all of these things combined to make for a rather crappy PhD experience for me

I would stress that I think the most important factors are the student, the supervisor and the relationship between them. If the student is reasonably clever and well motivated and the supervisor stays in reasonably regular contact, providing adequate guidance. then there really is no reason why any phd should fail ( in most cases)

A big congrats from a former Cantab PhDer!!! Well done doctor. Its always nice to hear of people being successful second time around. I may end up following suit some day ( hopefully in cambs) so its great to hear that there is light the end of the tunnel.

now enjoy your freedom :-)

Phbug is right. Rules may get used and abused but grad students don't just get chucked out unless they have failed exams/upgrade viva and even then you usually get at least one opportunity to redeem yourself. Sounds like this person hasn't told you the whole story. I had a first year PhD viva that went very badly and yet I was given an extra few months to get my act together.

You dont just get kicked out onto the street ;-)

Lostinoz,

I don't regret my decision to leave . I do regret that I didnt pick a topic more suited to my interests and aptitudes and a supervisor who actually supervised their students. I am still on this forum because first of all I am still a graduate student ( masters) and I feel I can offer people going through a shitty time with their PhDs useful advise. There is a chance I may sign up for another PhD in a few years as it could turn out to be important in my new career

If you quit your PhD yes it will hurt probably for a long time. The main thing I would advise you to do would be to take a break, go on holidays, maybe work in a no brainer job for a few months, so that you can chill out, reflect and think about your future, then starting applying seriously for a new career.

In your case there are to be two problems that I forsee:

1. I suspect pressure from your parents to excel in your PhD

2. You cant think of anything else you want to do for a career.

My opinion is that you didnt do this PhD for your parents or anyone else for that matter so what anyone else thinks really shouldnt weigh in to your decision to stay or go. Ill say again: you really should listen to what anyone else thinks!!! Even if your parents expect great things of you and they have been braggin to all the nighbours that you will be a doctor, your personal well being should always be more important than achieving their expectations of you

I would have been appaled had my parents been anything other than supportive of my decision to leave my PhD and they have never been anything but supportive so I could ask anymore from them.

I think you will find that as soon as you get another career that you enjoy and excel at that you would start to forget about your PhD....

Lostinoz,

Please don't feel ashamed because things arnt going so well for you. A PhD is probably the most intellectually challenging and physically draining experiences ( i found). Be proud that you have stuck with it this far. It takes a lot of character and most people would never even contemplate doing PhD in the first place, so remember that!!!

Speaking from my experience: I dropped out a couple of years back. It hurt quite a lot and my ego took a massive bruising. I could see the writing was on the wall for my PhD quite early as I clearly had no intention of working in that field post-PhD, I hated the project, was making little progress and had lost the support of my supervisor (despite his assertion otherwise)

I understand your reluctance to bail out. You are obviously a very proud person who wants to achieve great things in life particularly in your academic studies and so leaving your PhD would really pull the rug from underneath from all of this, but you need to throw your emotions aside and to ask yourself is sticking it out for another few years and feeling like this really worth it. Will your health/mental health suffer as a result?? for me no PhD is worth it if your well being suffers considerably as a result.

In your case there are a lot of positives for staying put: you want a career in academia and you have a very supportive supervisor but consider that even if you complete your PhD what is likely to change? will you be any happier ?You will still be liable to receive criticism of your work from other academics so might you may well still harbour the same insecurities about your abilities as a researchers you do now.

Well you can be polite but blunt and just ask what are his expectations of you as a student i.e what should you achieve? what is his supervisory style i.e how often does he see his students, what kind of supervisions does he have? Does he operate an open door policy or does he expect you to be largely independant?

You could preface this by saying that you are willing to work quite hard on this project but that all you ask is a reasonable expectation of support from your supervisior i.e feedback and direction.

Its good that you are thinking along these lines. He may not be exactly what you want as a supervisor but at least you will know where you stand which is a very good start. I think a lot of problems in PhDs probably arise as a result of a lack of communication on what is expected on both sides of the supervisor-student relationship.

ill have to admit my first thought was that this was a pisstake but come to think of it, it still might be!!!!

i think the threads on this forum that amuse me the most are:

i want informations on PhD in feild x, want to know good university where can i get funding.

the kind of people that have been spoon fed everything and expect a PhD to drop into their laps.

they can find this website but somehow cant find any information whatsoever on PhDs!!! Brilliant

there isnt so much of that these days but there used to be lots of posts like that a few years ago.

this thread really demonstrates how sheltered an existence some academics live, so wrapped up in their studies and they have no concept of how to deal with other human beings ( or time for that matter). I know this post was in the context of religious, cultural differences and relationships but this isn't an excuse!!! Sounds like this guy needs to get a grip and move on in life. This kind of behavior is bordering on obsessive!!!

im not sure if you have noticed but its been over two years since anyone has post anything to this thread. Most of these people are probably long gone and dont use this site anymore. I find it very strange that you are updating after such a long period.

Its time to move on and forget about this girl. there are plenty of other fish in the sea

Hi Sinead,

I am on a masters course as well at the moment. I think grading can almost always be thought of as unfair as you put it. We would like to think that marking schemes are always infallible and that examiners mark coursework in a consistent and fair way, but truth is that in most cases( even the physical sciences ), marking schemes can be rather flexible and open to interpretation and so there is room for variability between what one examiner might give and another might gave. That is why for marking dissertations which tend to make up quite a large contribution of the overall master's grade awarded, two examiners will grade the thesis independantly and a third reader may be drafted in should they disagree by a certain threshold (usually about 10%).

I cant say I have been completely happy with all my grades on this course and in some cases grades appear to be given rather arbitrarily but I wouldn't put it down to anything sinister like politics. I would agree that there is no benefit for examiners in messing over masters students and so this isnt likely to happen at this level. Courses may be marked in a certain way to ensure an acceptable distribution of grades but I think this is pretty much standard across the board. No course wants to have a reputation for being too hard or too easy and finding a happy medium can be a tricky prospect for course organisers.

Having said that, from my own experience and listening to other people on this forum, politics can play a big role in whether a student successfully completes their PhD thesis or not, so to answer your question: Yes politics does play a role but not so much at this level

I should add that i dont think there was anything overly aggressive about PhDbug's post. I've seen people post with much less tact and alot more aggression on this forum. So I wouldnt read too much into it.
8-)

You only have to look through the archives to see how many people on this forum  have had similar problems to you and set themselves free of the PhD shackles!!! myself included.

I can empathize with regards to your supervisor situation!! My opinion is why should a student be expected so care much about their work if their own supervisor doesnt.

my advice: leave your PhD and be happy. get a job and leave it all behind!!!

You could say that undertaking a PhD was an opportunity for you to strech and test your academic abilities and fullfill your ambition of undertaking a challenging and exciting career. Your time spent on your PhD has been a great opportunity to explore your research interests and develop skills in the context of a world class research environment. Afer careful reflection you have decided that that the field of study you were involved in was not something you wanted to pursue on a long time basis and you feel that your skills and talents would be better applied in another career. You can then proceed to digress about the skills and knowledge you have aquired and your your enthusuam for a new challenge. This should really be enough for any prospective employer

hope this helps. Just drop me a mail if you need any more advice

RJB