I think you're bound to have a few emotionally wobbly moments, as it's a really big decision you're making. Could you ring your girlfriend up, even if she's on holiday? Or speak to other good friends?

Maybe you could stave off your fears of unemployment by starting to investigate your alternatives. I know you said you had a few ideas, have you looked at what jobs are around in those areas at the moment? If other alternatives become more concrete then maybe your worry about unemployment will diminish a bit. I know you said you don't want to move away from your girlfriend right now, but maybe looking at jobs in other areas would be useful as a transition from PhD to full time work, it doesn't have to be forever. If joining the police seems good to you, what type of training would you have to do to join - you could check that out, I expect there's stuff about recruitment on their websites; if you have to do a course then at least you wouldn't be unemployed! A colleague of mine (IT technician) joined the police in an IT capacity as his skills were easily transferable to some of their projects - is there anything you do that would provide similar opportunities? btw do you read UK police blogs? They're a really interesting insight into the day to day job, also many are very well written too. They've been a regular source of procrastination for me over the past few years, everyone doing a PhD has something, don't they! :-)

Hope you feel better today anyway.

MH, I would disagree with you... if you do your Masters at a top ranked uni for your subject with the best staff for that topic, why would you go somewhere different for your PhD, purely for a bit of variety on your cv?

That all sounds really good Guitarman. You're giving it loads of thought and it sounds like everyone supports you, so you're definitely not doing it on the spur of the moment. Try not to worry about letting other people down, I'm guilty of that myself, but it would be SO wrong to stick with something like a PhD purely for other people. You'd be the one doing all the work and possibly suffering as a consequence if you can't stand it, so even people you worry about letting down wouldn't be selfish (or sadistic?) enough to want you to carry on regardless, would they...? It's your life.

Hope your next meetings go well and you can make the right decision for yourself soon. Look after yourself! (up)

Maybe it's just a way of joining in a 'conversation' with people you don't know, though it would be a bit odd in a face to face situation.

Sim, I hope the mumps are improving and someone looked after your snails!

So did inspiration strike at the last moment, so you got something written for your meeting and the PhD now seems nowhere near as bad as you thought? Or was it yet another nail in the PhD coffin, so to speak?

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Bogski_2000, I think part of the problem is in the way you worded your post. Not saying anything about yourself or what your project actually is makes you sound like a potential spammer, rather than a legitimate student. We get quite a few spammers passing through this forum relating to your particular subject areas. However, people are usually VERY helpful to those in need though!

If it's your friend's first draft, and not the *final* submitted version, why not wait for the supervisor's feedback on the thesis as a whole and raise questions about methodology after that? All drafts are work in progress and are subsequently amended to correct flaws or weaknesses. Unless I've misunderstood you...?

Cringing at your earlier work is quite positive, in a weird way! It shows that your critical abilities are developing all the time so you can see what's wrong with older writing. It would be more worrying if you carried on for years thinking everything you wrote was so great it couldn't possibly be improved on! As long as it doesn't make you miserable, undermine your confidence or just too fed up to try and improve as you go along, I wouldn't worry, just see it as part of the learning process as the previous posters have said.

I'm still looking at recent stuff I've written (abstracts, the final submitted version of my thesis...) and think ooh dear, that's a bit woffly, hhhmm that could be clearer, so I guess improving your writing and being able to critically analyse your own work is just an ongoing part of academia. I was quite pleased to read something a Prof said about his own early work recently, that he thought it was quite simplistic now (though he didn't say it made him cringe!), but it looks like we're not alone in this way of thinking!

Hi Lara, I don't blame you for feeling nervous about it. The whole submission/viva plays havoc with your confidence at the best of times - well, it has with mine! I just feel that any extra info that moves it forward must be better than that limbo between submission and a vague but unknown viva date, or maybe it's just marginally better....?

My preparation is slow and tedious, but it's got to be done as it's so near (this week and next) that I'll have to speed up a bit now. It'll happen anyway, so the best thing I can do is go in there and be as confident as possible about what I've written. It's the first time for over a year I've been able to distance myself from the thesis, as writing up was quite rushed and intensive really. I'm glad that it's proving better than I thought it was when I was in that horrible post-submission well of misery to quote Nick Cave (he hasn't done a PhD but is good on gloom). Not that I'm listening to doom and gloom these days, but songs stick in your mind sometimes, don't they.

I went to see the room my viva's being held in the other day, it's in a 'parlour' in the head of college's suite. It's off her senior management meeting room and the other exit is in the main college foyer where undergrad students hang around watching fashion videos playing on a loop on a big tv screen... I can't decide whether it's good because it's a nice room, or bad because it's SO in the middle of what's going on there.

I'm doing a talk for a load of students this week about my subject, so hopefully it'll help with the viva prep. Plus I get paid and the new course director might come along, which is good as she's well-known in that field and some of us are quite excited about her appointment. Otherwise it's a horrible stressful time, I get down to revision and think it's all going to be ok, then I have the odd panic about how much there is to revise and wonder how on earth I'll get it all done in time and feel a bit sick. I'm not sleeping very well either, I get the right amount of sleep but can't say I feel very perky when I wake up. I've started dreaming viva questions and answers recently too! Our heads of research have been great, one's booked me in for a pep talk in case I need it this week, though the other said I probably know loads more than I think I do, but to expect bad cop/bad cop for the mock viva interrogation technique....

Anyway, it's probably not much different to anyone else's experience, it's just something unpleasantly stressful to get through isn't it, then hopefully I can have a normal life again. One day!! That stuff you sent me has been useful, so thank you again for that!

Hope things are ok with you? And Armendaf too?

It sounds like you've made your mind up then! Depends on how much you've got in savings to live off, but maybe it would be sensible to be mildly cautious if you're thinking of chucking it in before having a definite alternative to go to, because of the economic climate? Definitely work the financial stuff out properly though. It's the start of May now so could you give it till the end of the academic year so you can live off it a bit longer - ie how much do you hate it!! Or maybe that would give you till the new academic year to get a different job, then tell the uni... I think there were other posts a while back on how to write the skills you've acquired from a PhD you've dropped out of into your cv, maybe have a look elsewhere on this forum?

Obviously we're all different, but I felt so much better when I'd actually made a decision that I was going to leave my horrible job. I think being undecided made me more miserable, but after I'd decided what to do, I felt less trapped by my circumstances and was able to stick it out a bit longer. I knew that if I had really had enough I could give in my notice anytime and live off my savings, but knowing that made it easier to limp on with it for a bit longer and stash more money away. I think that decision made me distance myself mentally from all the job stuff that annoyed me or bored me witless, so that made it easier too. Having said that, changing career seems to be taking me ages, so it's a good thing I like what I'm doing as it makes juggling things and living on crap money worth it!

It sounds a really difficult situation to be in, potentially with personal safety issues involved if strange men keep coming round. Does she have any other close friends who could speak to her, or family? You know how she's behaving as you live with her, but maybe other people don't realise she might not be coping very well. It might be a good idea to see who else she might listen to before she puts herself (or maybe you) in a really dodgy situation.

I agree with Delta, a bit of both. Can you have a proper talk with her about it, because I'd be a bit worried if she was my friend, even though it must be messing up your own work quite a bit. I know it's not for everyone, but some people find bereavement organisations like CRUSE helpful to sort out how they're feeling, responding to situations after a death etc. A friend of mine said he went off for lots of random sex for a while after his partner died, but it was just a phase. He ended up seeing a therapist/bereavement counsellor for a while in subsequent years until it was no longer helpful for him.

Probably won't make you feel a whole lot better if it's disrupting your sleep, but maybe it's a bit safer for her to bring random men back to your flat than going off to strange men's homes, as she could potentially get into quite serious trouble if she's not thinking straight at the moment. I don't think you can expect the same level of recognition or understanding from her about the importance of your PhD right now because things get turned upside down after a death and one doesn't necessarily respond rationally to things. You really need non-judgemental friends for support at times like that.

Guitarman, I think you should trust your instincts on this. Doing a PhD isn't for everyone and a year and a half sounds about the right amount of time to know whether it's for you or not, because you've tried it, to some extent. I'm at the end of mine (viva in the next week) and I'd never have got to this point if I hadn't really wanted to do it for it's own sake, because it's so damned hard at times. I work in a research department and we expect some students to drop out after a year or so because it's just not the right thing for them to be doing at that point in time. It doesn't mean they're incapable in any way, and neither is it anything personal in relation to their supervisors, but it's just not for them. Senior academics have also told me they'd never do a PhD because 'it's horrible' and their careers are doing fine without one, plus they get to have more of a life.

I think it's ok to chuck it in, as long as you're quite sure it's the right decision for you. Your life is far more important than passing fleetingly through a tiny part of academia. I don't think you should feel bad about letting people down either, it's quite likely that in the wider scheme of things, you will be one of many PhD students in that place, past and future, so unless you think you're going to permanently ruin anyone's career, do what suits you best.

Hope I'm not prodding you towards quitting if you just wanted people to tell you to stick with it, but only you know how much you can't stand it. It's not the same, but I had a vile job once that I hated so much that every day I fantasised about just walking out and never going back. The idea was lovely but not realistic, so I saved up money and did leave, albeit on very good terms with my employer, which was definitely the right move though not instantaneous. Funnily enough, the 'right move' for me was to do a PhD (!!), but I knew I'd come to the end of the road with that particular career and had to do something different.

Does the idea of never doing any of your current PhD stuff ever again seem blissfully tempting over a longish period of time, or do you have days when you think it's not too bad, just a temporary blip that you can stick with? Do you see jobs you could apply for, to test the possibilities of what's out there if you do quit the PhD? Maybe even applying or going for job interviews will help you to decide what to do, whether to stay or quit. Anyway, good luck deciding, it's a worn out old cliche, but life's too short to be miserable doing a PhD if you don't want to do it for it's own sake.

That does sound troublesome! What sort of supervision do the other PhD students in your dept get - are you comparatively worse off than them, or is that the way they do things where you are? It might be useful for you to get an idea of that, then speak to someone senior with overall responsibility for postgrad students, say your situation is having a negative effect on your work and is holding you back.

With the hands-off one that does lengthy monologues instead of written feedback, in the meantime, is it worth you recording meetings with him so you can play back his words of wisdom (!) at your leisure?

I don't know what the procedures are for other universities, but we have to record all meetings on supervision sheets. Copies of this go to various other parts of the dept, as well as the student and supervisor, as records of what was discussed and what workplans were decided for the next meeting. It's supposed to help track progress or lack of, and provides a paper trail if things do go wrong, although bad supervision happens - some academics aren't cut out for it! One student had dreadful supervisors so gave up on them towards the end, but she had help from other people she knew who'd done PhDs, although in a different subject. She ended up passing with no corrections, in spite of her supervisors rather than because of them, but I expect cases like hers are unusual.

I hope you manage to change something so the situation improves. Good luck! (up)

Having a panel meeting confirmed her unsuitability for my PhD in front of the rest of my supervisory team because they could see first hand what she was like with me (and other students, as it later became clear). Personally, she was verbally aggressive and rude, very bullying. Academically, she picked holes in my project in an unconstructive and very intransigent way. For some reason, she didn't seem able (or just didn't want to) understand the work that drew on a different discipline to hers, making it 'wrong' and needing changing for a successful project, in her opinion. As the rest of the panel came from other academic backgrounds, they could tell she wasn't suited to an interdisciplinary project like mine, which they all regarded as good and they could see that what I was doing was perfectly valid. Her bullying attitude towards me was confirmed when one of the panel phoned me up at home that evening to see if I was ok, as they had been shocked at how rude she had been, and said I shouldn't let anyone speak to me like that.The other panel member echoed these views, so having realised my problem with that woman wasn't imaginary, I started the long process of getting her replaced.

That situation wouldn't work for all students wanting to change supervisors, but for me it was useful to have other academics witness what she was like towards her students. Another student also had to get rid of her a few years later, he didn't know about my problems with her but experienced exactly the same behaviour. At the end of the day, it came down to either changing a supervisor or chucking it in and starting again somewhere else. It's worth trying to do something about it, supervisory relationships are so important and sometimes people just don't get on. A PhD is difficult enough without the extra stress of a bad supervisor.