I'm also a part-timer although I actually work as a lecturer in the department where I am registered for my PhD. Even though I work there and obviously teach as part of my job, I haven't been involved with the post-grad community at all. The majority of PhDs in our department are part-time and so there isn't a great social scene anyway as most are mature or from overseas and have other demands on their time. It has meant that I've felt very isolated at times. One major tip I can give you is to keep using this forum - it really does help. There may also be other part-timers in your department who you could network with and since they will be working outside they'll understand what you are going through.

Although I've heard plenty of horror stories, it can also be a positive experience. My external examiners were very thorough and were positive about my research despite the fact that I was given a re-submit. They made it clear to me that my research was to be commended and that my rather poor thesis was the result of bad supervision. In fact, one of them kept asking me "Did they (my supervisors) get you to do....?" and when my answer was no to every single one, he then responded with "Well, if we'd been supervising you we would have got you doing.... in your first/second year." It made me feel reasonably positive about my work and the viva. Mind you, after the viva I had a major argument with my director of studies and relations have soured, which has not made for a pleasant year.

Angelofthenorth I've found out a bit more.  A re-submit acts almost as a first attempt in that they can give you further corrections (you might want to check that this is the case in your university). This is good and bad.  At least if you don't quite meet the criteria the examiners laid down they can get you to do a bit more rather than fail. Of course it means more work but rather that than fail.  One of my colleagues had several rounds of corrections before he was given his. As you said, they can't bring anything up that they did not specify in the corrections list that they gave you.  I have been given the impression by more than one person that if they were going to fail you, they would have done it at the first submission. Although you can't guarantee they will pass you, the likelihood is that they will eventually even if a few more revisions are required.  So it sounds as if we'll be okay eventually (fingers crossed)
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Daisyduke I know exactly what you and Alice mean.  Although I wasn't in a senior post prior to starting my PhD, I graduated the top of my class and I thought I was pretty smart. Two years into the PhD and I felt like a complete dunce.  Another eight years later (I'm a part-timer), I am now a senior lecturer although I still haven't finished (I'm in the process of re-submit) and I have come to the conclusion that I have no talent for the subject whatsoever. I have learnt a couple of things during this time though.  Firstly, you will get far more criticism than praise because your supervisors will be looking at how you can improve what you write rather than tell you what is already good.  The most praise I received was 'This chapter is completed' , well whooopeee. I can see why they do it but it makes you feel like a loser.  My supervisor is pretty harsh most of the time - he told me last week my writing is facile. The second thing I learnt was that many academics suffer from enlarged ego syndrome! ;-)  I was at a research seminar a few years ago, and one fairly junior member of staff who thought he was the cat's pyjamas tore into a more senior member of staff. It nearly ended in blows and resulted in a really flaming email war that all the staff got copied into by mistake.  The junior member of staff is also one of my supervisors :-( He doesn't like me much so I don't have anything to do with him. Remember that your supervisors have been researching for a long time and experience makes a huge difference.

Don't give up.  Determination can make up for lack of expertise because you'll get there in the end. I'll freely admit I am not brilliant in the subject I chose for my PhD, but I am good enough and you will be too.  Stick with it. It is miserable at times but don't ever imagine that you're the only person who struggles - most of us have and still do.  Keep coming back here and you'll get plenty of advice. Good luck (up)

Good luck Frenchymarie. I really hope your appeal is successful. The whole viva process seems to be as much about luck as it is about your ability. Let's hope the university sees sense in your case.

I started out being interested. My Phd is economic modelling, whilst my undergraduate degree was mathematics. To earn some money whilst I was waiting to hear about funding for a PhD in mathematics, I took a research assistant post in the economics department. My boss suggested I think about a PhD in economic modelling because he had just employed another economist to build a regional economic model and, given my background, I could help and get a PhD out of it. Eventually I decided that this would make sense and subsequently registered. To cut a long story short, the model never got built (they were too busy with consultancy), I had to do it on my own and given that I'm not an economist it's been a nightmare. I've had to learn a completely new subject and a new programming language, both of which I'd normally enjoy but the pressure made me so stressed that all the interest was wrung out of it years ago. But I'm stubborn and refused to give up with the result that I'm nearly there. I've been through one viva and was given a re-submit with viva, but it's nearly done and it's ok. I'm not saying it's ideal, but it's possible to complete without being enthralled by your subject. It's also made me realise exactly what I want to research when I'm done, so it's not all bad!

I loathe my PhD with passion.  When you live with a research project for as long as you do with a PhD you are bound to hate it at some point. As everyone else has said, the process of completion is not pleasant.  You receive constant criticism, which can be pretty depressing when you thought you were doing okay. For example, my supervisor told me last year that he thought I'd given up because I never did any work. I did point out to him that he wouldn't have a clue how much work I did because I never had any supervisory meetings and the few times I did ask for help, he told me that the whole point of a PhD was for me to work out problems on my own. The reality is that he and his little band of minions were too busy earning money from external consultancy work to bother with me. Just for the record, I used to work for him and his minions and they used to get me doing all their lit searches and data analysis so they were free to earn even more money. It left me very little time to do my research but I nonetheless I did it. Bitter? Moi? Never!

You will also come into contact with the most spectacular egos. You might be able to tell that my supervisor has an ego, the size of which rivals Everest. If you have supervisors who are keen to help and are generally positive in the way they treat you then you are lucky. This might sound depressing but it is the reality for many of us.  But having said all that, the PhD is yours and you are doing it for you. If you want it, don't let anybody stop you.  Be prepared to accept constructive criticism but don't be put off by your supervisors if you genuinely believe they are wrong (make sure you've got your facts straight though!). Remember that their motivation is completely different from yours. Have faith in yourself. If you couldn't do it, you wouldn't be there in the first place. Good luck.

I would hand in my resignation, tell my supervisor exactly what I think of him whilst waving a huge wad of cash in front of his face and buy a PhD. Then I'd go on a loooooooooong holiday, somewhere hot and sunny where I would read books for pleasure. Right, must buy a ticket.

I can recommend The Elements of Style too. It really is very helpful and very short which makes it a winner in my opinion.

I think we should set up 'Bad Writers Anonymous' - my supervisor told me today that my writing is facile and my punctuation is awful. It's strange that when I was his research assistant and earning a pittance (I no longer work for him thankfully) my writing was good enough to write consultancy projects (for which he earned megabucks) and five chapters of an annual publication he used to edit. He is a prof without a PhD by the way.

Chin up Bonzo, you're in good company ;-)

p.s. I hope my punctuation was okay?!

I want to watch cr*p on TV without overwhelming feelings of guilt that I'm wasting precious writing up time.

AngeloftheNorth, good for you. I know how you feel although my viva wasn't bad other than finding out all the things my supervisors should have told me years ago :-s I know it's a complete b*tch to have to go through the hassle. I go from feeling glad it's nearly over, to panic that I won't finish (I have a month left) to depression that I should have chosen another subject. I was talking to one of my colleagues last week and she says that 10 years on, she still feels the pain of her PhD (BTW she got it). We were moaning about the UK PhD system and be both agreed it needs a serious overhaul. It should be really tough but this all feels more about luck than anything else.

Still, nearly there eh? ;-)

I know exactly how you feel. I’ve been doing mine for 10 years and am now in the resubmit phase (the viva was fine but my thesis was sadly lacking in the lit review). I think for many PhD students the process is very isolating particularly for part-timers. This forum has been great though and has stopped me from feeling as if the world was against me. I realised I wasn't the only person to have cr*p supervisors and although I'm still very angry about the way I was treated, I think it's a problem with the UK system. I have had two supervisory meetings in ten years unless you count the odd 'How's it going?' conversation in the corridor!

Well done for finishing and the very best of luck with the viva. :-)

Thanks for the good luck wishes. 

I should have clarified that I am currently re-working the thesis according to the examiner' s massive (but fair) list! I've looked at our uni regulations and others but nowhere does it say the purpose of the second viva.  I suppose it's because you are essentially submitting a new thesis. So I've answered my own question.  D'oh!

Anyway, any success stories would be welcomed just to make us feel better    
:-)

Hello,

This is my first post - I've been lurking for a while and I'm just grateful that I found you all ,-)

Anyway, to cut a very long short, I am in the re-submit phase of my PhD. I'm in year 10 because I am part-time student but full-time lecturer. I am a mathematician by first degree but am now working in economics. Due to poor supervision (Director of Studies with no PhD, second supervisor who claimed to know what he was doing and didn't, third supervisor who'd like me to fail, no supervisory meetings ever, supervisors not understanding that maths and economics are very different subjects, blah blah blah, you get the picture) I got major revisions and a re-viva.

My question is have any of you had a re-viva? I'm not entirely sure what it's for - the examiners (I had two externals because I'm a member of staff) told me that I didn't need to do any more research but needed to beef up the thesis (i.e. explain EVERYTHING in detail). I presume the re-viva is because they weren't convinced I knew what I was doing but I'd like to know. Has anyone been through one? Did you survive? ,-)

Sarah :-)