if you are in the economic/social sciences and would be applying at the ESRC (and perhaps the same is true for other RCs) be aware that most studentships are distributed by a quota system, so your department gets f.e. two quotas and gives them more or less to whom they like. thus it is important to check if your department has a policy of only chosing people who haven't started yet. the welcome trust does not accept applications from 1st year students. if you are a woman, check out IFUW - there you can ONLY apply if you have already started. in general... i have financed my first year privately and have worked very hard on getting funding for my second, with no luck so far.

i guess it depends a bit on your situation. at my university for example the university's research studentships are decided on a yearly basis, so anyone has to (re-)apply for the second year. concerning research council funding, yes you can apply in your first, for your second and third and, if your first year was privately funded, also fourth year. you would need to check out if you are eligible though.

oh we're on page 99! who will get the first post on page 100?

i completely understand you, oz - bad supervisor meetings or bad funding decisions tend to make me pick up the bad habits i had got rid of or had been trying to get rid of.
sending you lots of encouragement! stick to your decision to stop... just because your supervisor lets you down is no reason for you to let yourself down!

404, at the moment i think it is either a loan or quitting. i decided early on that i wouldn't do part-time, as i'm 31 already and am doing the PhD in order to try for an academic career, which would be kind of pointless if i get my PhD in 5, 6 years. i can't afford to do it JUST out of interest/as a hobby.
the problem with a loan is: well i have a deeply ingrained aversion against having debts (might be a Swiss thing). i might overcome that though. also - how can i do a PhD on a loan and try for a child at the same time? (see other thread) because i do want a family and i can't risk waiting until i'm finished with my PhD (and hopefully just started a short-term post-doc-sy thing). it just seems wrong... so i am getting the impression i have to chose between academia or family. oh well. i am going back to switzerland in a week for about a month and will talk it over with my partner then. maybe we'll adopt, as juno suggested

no, lets please not stop

oz, you mentioned childcare benefits for unemployed people... is that equally valid if you're a student? (I just know from some other countries, that if you are a student, you're not entitled to any benefits that unemployed people get)
also, is it valid for international students, or do you know what eligibility criteria there are? i have british citizenship but that doesn't make me eligible for government funding for a PhD (research councils). would i still be eligible for maternity benefits? what if i didn't have citizenship?

nice summary, piglet! can i sign up for a weekly summary of this kind in order to avoid having to read the forum every day?

404 - thanks for asking... i've turned into kind of a funding expert recently, telling everyone else where they can apply - but for me, it's looking quite bleak. feeling low today. that was my one last big hope.

seeing as all my savings are gone (more than gone, actually) i now need to seriously consider if doing a PhD is worth not just living on a minimum, away from my partner, but also going into deep debt. i soooo love my topic and have given lots for the chance to pursue it... everybody tells me that finding funding with that topic and my past academic record should be a piece of cake... but there's just nothing left that i could give.

well. now is not the time to make any kind of important decisions.

i think i understood that you, juno, argue that a PhD is different to a job in this, as it is part of education rather than work. well personally i think a PhD should be seen as work. but even if it is education, why should it be more ok in education than in work?
i honestly intend these sentences as questions, not as rhetoric statements of fact or something.

cont.
i know i endanger my career by deciding to have a baby. i believe this is true for any moment in time, there is no right time. but am i selfish? that's what my problem is with juno's argument. am i selfish to be wanting it all, career and baby? it being now for me a question of "during the PhD or never": is it selfish to refuse to decide between either/or and rather claim my right to try for both?

about the simple question: tell your supervisor before you start a PhD that you intend to start a family during the same time, or not? well in switzerland there is a law that says, during a job interview it is illegal to ask the interviewee if she is pregnant, or if she intends to become pregnant (don't know if the same law exists over here). i believe there is excellent reason for this law.

well i will out myself and say that i am very deliberatively planning on trying for a child whilst doing my PhD. that doesn't mean it will work for sure.

i would not dream of telling anyone like for example my supervisor in advance. it might never happen! i mean 1 in 5 who try to get pregnant, don't. so it would honestly simply be stupid to put other plans on hold whilst trying to get a family going.

i am unfunded. is it then, considering i don't live in a social vacuum, more ok to deliberatively try for a baby, than if i were funded? i know i asked this question before, but noone replied to it.

i personally like the idea of adoption. it is not so easy though!

try adopting while being a PhD student without a settled financial situation. there are also long waiting lists - there are far more prospective adoptive parents than "available" children, except if you chose to do it the illegal way. adoption agencies will cost you a lot of money. and they will likely intrude into your personal lives, judge your living situation according to their standards.

adoption also often means waiting on short notice for several years. during these years you have to be constantly (every day, no holidays) ready to leave for several weeks to a foreign country, on an instant's notice if a child becomes "available". you gotta have an employer who is ok with that!

juno, perhaps I am misunderstanding (don't take it the wrong way please). it seems to me you are, bottom line, saying that women should chose between either babies or academic careers. because it would be selfish to want both, when other women would be prepared to decide against babies if that means they can do a faster PhD?
how do you feel if it is an unfunded PhD - does that earn you the right to have a baby when you want to? (except that you can't afford to)

(just because waiting three years is in many cases simply not an option, it's now or never; and because having a baby after the PhD is just the same as during the PhD, really... either you're unfunded/unemployed and can thus do as you like, or you got that post-doc fellowship which is short-term, other people depend on you, other people would have liked to get it, and you selfishly take it on just to then become pregnant...)

404, thanks for the crossed fingers. unfortunately it didn't work out - the application was not approved.

piglet, that doesn't sound too good! hope you get out of there soon.

perhaps in 50 years you will be telling your grandchildren stories about when that customer asked for a beaujolais and you sold him a bordeau instead, and then he kept coming back to your shop saying you were the only store that had good beaujolais, but in fact you were selling him bordeau all the time... or something like that

i do hope you find a real job soon! keeping my fingers crossed for you.

well, and some people want a MA, not because they want to go on and do a PhD afterwards.
- maybe they want to pursue some interests, before they start a job
- maybe they have been working for several years and want to take some time off work for some further education
- maybe they applied for a ESRC-recognised MA/MSc but didn't get in due to their not-so-good BA/BSc results. by getting a MA they improve their chances of getting on a recognised MA/MSc course the following year - and if they apply for 1+3 funding that "extra" year would even be funded.

so there are good reasons!