BHC, I take your point that on a practical level money is required to fund education (whichever source that should come from). When I said that education should not be based in money, I meant the financial status of the applicant *should not* be a factor in determining whether they may be permitted to have access to education. The reason I put "should not" in asterix is that I am making a subjective value judgement here, and that is the point of disagreement.
Pragmatically, money is the source of access to any number of services, however also pragmatically a lot of people do not have that money. As such, a significant number of people rely on credit to fund, particularly Masters. Given that the point of CDLs is to improve career prospects through education, then as they stand, whilst flawed, they are a positive thing.
The point to be challenged is the nexus between money and access to education - people intelligent and enthusiastic enough to go on to do postgraduate study should be afforded the means to do so - even if that is through a system of CDLs, which are still commercial loans. I know you say that in the past education access to education was limited, and still is, but there are lots of things that until recently were massively unjust and yet legal and everyday occurrences; and in fact still are. Just because things 'are' does not mean that they should be... Or perhaps you would also anyone who is not an upper-middle class white protestant male from education as was the case in this country less than 200 years ago?

Firstly, I did not at any point use the word snob, so I'd prefer it if you did not erroneously state that I had.

Regardless, you have chosen to delay education (through getting jobs, taking years out etc). Although you don't detail how you did this, you must acknowledge that this is not an ideal situation for anyone, yourself included. It may have been the case that you were able to live at home (with a family member/partner) in order to be able to save for your degrees - again you don't say specifically so this is speculation - others may not have the ability to do that.

My annoyance at your previous post was not implying that you had not worked hard for the things you have achieved; it was the condescending way in which you (and still do) refer to people who have had to take CDLs. Yes, you did state that they were not always a bad thing; however you overtly criticised the 'culture' of borrowing, and the implication was that those who took credit were reckless. Yes the OP is in a specific situation of a poor credit history, but your post was far far more general than that in its indictment of loans, so please do not hide behind that argument. The fact is that surely it is preferable for a person to take credit to get a better education (and hopefully better career), than to work in a dead-end lowly-paid job for years in the hope that they will be able to pay for that education.

And to answer your last question... yes, you have not given any reason to think that you are not elitist. Anyone who believes education should be based on money is elitist, whether they are wealthy or not.

How about "To the incompetent fool who nearly wrecked my PhD, and thus career: thanks a bunch"... although that may not win you many friends!:p

No-one wants to take out loans, of course; and no-one can deny the fact that banks have made mistakes. But given that in this country there is no other way fo fund postgraduate study (especially Masters courses), then people do need to take loans and they should not be condemned for that fact. The CDL banks do insist that you explain exactly how and why the course will improve your career prospects, they don't simply issue them. Furthermore, I doubt it is the £8000 CDLs that have led to the banking crisis, it is mortgages and investment bank practices that have led to that. In addition, we do not know why the OP has a poor credit history - it could be due to reckless spending, or something more unfortunate.

I would just like to know how people are meant to pay for Masters without these loans. As Chrisrolinski said, saving and/or doing a Masters part-time is almost impossible, unless you have a ridiculously well-paid job (and there aren't too many of those about). Should I be forced to end my education just because my family are poor? If you agree with that, then you are elitist.

It depends how significant their contribution has been. For people like sups, or who have stood out then yup job title (no address), for other its a case of "From the University of X: Professors J** H****, A** F*** etc

Sorry to add to a clearly archaic thread, but Hazyjane your attitude is appalling. How on earth is someone from a less-than-wealthy background ever supposed to get a Masters without massively stalling their career; if at all, unless these loans are available?? The logical conclusion to your argument, is that education is for the wealthy only who do not need to take out debt. I don't know what discipline you are in, but many disciplines have minimal Masters funding, and most students pay their way through a Masters.

I cannot believe that people can be so elitist and ignorant nowadays. Truly awful.

Hey,
I'm still paying back that goddamn CDL too!!! But, it was worth it, I think. My uni waives fourth year fees, but that is on the condition we submit within 4 years (which you will). Have a word with the Students Union - Manchester's is slow and not always great, but they always sorted this stuff for me (they can check it out for you without alerting people the the fact it is *you* who needs to start coughing up!!

This is really unusual; a similar thing happened to a friend of mine and when she explained the situation, they relented and although she paid something it was a nominal charge. Do you have any evidence (doctor's note) that you were unwell? If not, does a member of staff know that you were ill, and could they intervene on your behalf - you should have a personal tutor or member of staff responsible for PGs.

MSc funding is never easy to get, especially with a 2:ii, even in the pure sciences. I would back pamplemousse and suggest that you don't play the discrimination card, it will not endear you to anyone. If you were a strong candidate you would get the funding somehow; we've all hit brick walls at some point. And look at it this way, compared to Arts, Humanities and Social Sciences you guys in pure science are totally spoilt. Imagine if everyone studying those subjects said they were discriminated against by narrow government ideas of what academic research is.

To be honest most of the academics in my dept teach 2 hours a week, every other week (not every week), and within the past 5 years have produced 1 book and a handful of journal articles (two of which were the same bar the opening paragraph). So, about 3 hours a week then.

I don't mean to add to any disagreement here, but I think many of the previous posters are right - this is not as serious an issue as you seem to feel it is. Of course this is your home, and as such it is fairly personal, but it is your flatmate's home too.
A couple of things you have stated seem to suggest that you are fairly conservative in outlook (this is not a criticism, just an observation), for example when you note that they have worn nightwear in the kitchen. I don't wish to be a cultural relativist; but this is absolutely normal in every way; perhaps not where you are from or in your experience, but here it is. When I have friends/family to visit, even if they only come for coffee, it is also perfectly normal for them to make tea/coffee themselves (for example if I pop out to the shop etc).
Yes the situation is not what you had imagined when you moved in, and I can understand some annoyance at that, but people and situations change. An earlier poster noted that perhaps it was the manner in which you spoke to your flatmate and her boyfriend that may have inflamed the situation. Given some of the wording you have used on this thread it also seems to me that that could be the case. Regardless of who is right/wrong you (both) could have done things better. Perhaps yes, it may of been polite for her to ask you; but you should not have asked her boyfriend to leave - it would have been better to politely sit down and say to your flatmate that you'd prefer it if her boyfriend only stayed 2 times a week. In fact that is what you should do now. And then move out as soon as possible. For her sake and yours.

Hey!
'Bug, I think the OP is a third year undergrad and would like to do a Masters (well that's what I gleaned!), it wasn't particularly clear, but the advice I'm giving is on that premise. Most people opt for the CDL option. Mainly because a graduate loan requires that you have an income, which you don't. Yes the fuds on a CDL are limited - but during my MA (Politics) everyone had part-time jobs. Depending on your discipline - which you don't state - you will most likely only be in Uni for 8 or so hours a week and so although it is not ideal it is fairly easy to combine this with a part-time job.

Hi again A116 is right.

You will find, time and time again, that just because things are not necessary in principle (such as not needing a Masters), they are necessary in practice due to extremely high levels of competition. Much of academia is, rather sadly, about promoting oneself as one better than others.

Although I agree with the previous posters, if you are at Leeds uni (not Leeds Met), then I know they offer loads of scholarships, so if you do put some hard work in and impress your lecturers, they are likely to recommend you for one of those. It would most likely mean a first though; but it may be the case that you don't necessarily have to pay for a Masters...

Hi Lloyd

Great news that you are feeling more positive about this horrible situation. Who picked your viva examiners? In an ideal world your supervisors would have already known about their bias against your methodology and would not have picked them/would have suggested some appropriate revisions before submission. There is the possibility of being re-viva'd with alternative examiners, but if you wish to stay in academia, it is often best just to get on with it (as you currently are)

Good luck!