======= Date Modified 20 Jun 2012 13:36:19 =======
Hello everyone,

I'm sure that the vast majority of you won't remember me as I've been AWOL for quite some time now - I had a combination of suffering with quite severe depression, illness and generally shutting myself away for a bit - but I'm back and have somehow found myself in the final month before submitting.

I was due to submit by October 2012 (our uni almost insists on 3 years and then a completion year), but I managed to convince my supervisor that I wanted to be done by the end of July - I NEED to have this done now - I NEED that final deadline to push me to complete.

Now that I have my submission date (july 27th or 30th) I'm beginning to wonder if I've made a HUGE mistake ,-) It all seems very close now and very very real - I'm trying to complete my conclusion (where do I start with that??) and am awaiting a response on my full draft from my sup, then its all go to the end. My examiners are confirmed, it is really quite terrifying and I figured that I should come back here, see you guys again and see if I can offer support to those of you at an earlier stage in this crazy journey, and get some support from those who have gone before, and who are at the same stage :-)

Its good to be back!

It seems as though we are due to submit at around the same time! I, for one, will be watching this thread to see how things are going :-)

Massive congrats Dr Chuff :-) Thanks so much for such a detailed post, even after the champagne ;-) Really delighted for you xx

That is just incredible... that you have to sign up for 10 YEARS??? with that little freedom?? OMG.... So what happens if you decide that teaching isn't for you? There must be a lot of totally demotivated teachers there who are just doing their time, there certainly would be here ;-)

I agree that you need a historian on board too - they will guide you through the humanities side of your degree. I'd also agree that that is epic, I'd say (and stand to be corrected) that its way too big, any historian would tell you that. I think your suggestion of keeping it down to a specific area is far more appropriate - I mean, you're talking a massive span of time, and a vast area - its just not possible. You could even keep it to one area - just the Med would be a huge undertaking. You have to remember that 80K words really isn't very many... it sounds a lot, but trust me, you have to be focused to get a study into that - a worldwide study would be a doorstop of a book - heck to do it right you'd need several volumes!

As far as your concerns re standing on the shoulders of others - that is what we all do - we take what others have done, examine it, contrast and compare it with the work of other researchers, then consider it, use our sources (I've used many not used before) and then make something further of it. We have to make a contribution to knowledge - by collecting together the various threads from other writers and then offering some new insight thus furthering the course of research you will have done that. You don't have to be saving the world, finding a cure for cancer (although that would be good) or creating a new species to be worthy of a PhD - the PhD can be seen as an apprenticeship where you learn the advanced research techniques that you then use in your career. Don't put it on too high a pedestal ;-)

Hi

This sounds to me an absolutely fascinating PhD topic, maybe a bit broad but definately very interesting and very worthwhile. Let me say I'm a historian, not a scientist, and can see definate worth in non-experimental research ;-)

What you need to understand is that its not just reading - that would be your literature review, you will need to identify primary and secondary sources, translations, define arguments etc, and then analyse the findings from the primary sources - we don't use test-tubes, we use documents and words for our 'experiments'. The literature review, combined with your reports on your sources and methods, plus your discussion of the sources, and analysis of the information you collect will combine to make a thesis - that's how it works in humanities.

As I say, I think your topic sounds brilliant, just brilliant, so fascinating, but you have to see that for yourself :-)

Eska
I've been on here long enough for most here to know me and know that I'm not like that. My comment was not intended as being sarcastic - I just don't like seeing a forum that I love, with people I've grown to care about over the 3 years I've been posting here being upset over some silly kid's comments, but then creating added stress on the mods asking them to choose who can or cannot comment.

I'll shut up now

I'm a little torn here.... Bullying is wrong, end of - but bullying happens.. bullying in real life is a nightmare, bullying in a situation such as email/facebook etc where its difficult to miss is hard, but bullying here?? Come on guys... CC is a bit of an idiot at times, we all know that, his comments were totally out of order but KB is perfectly within her rights to just not read them... if CC's name is there emblazoned in lights she doesn't have to read that post and can read the more supportive ones. If he is mailing her privately and hammering her there then that is a TOTALLY different situation and he should be removed from the forum. I'd worry if we end up with a situation where a mod is pressed to decide whether a 'pull your socks up' type post (and yes, CC is worse than that a lot of the time) is 'bullying' and should be wiped. We're all big girls and boys, we're all very intelligent girls and boys, we're all heading out into a world (or have already been there) where for all the liberal left wing wooly hug a tree brigade's attempts at light and love in all things, it isn't real!!! People, some of them are just bloody nasty twats. Live with it, deal with it, learn coping stategies - DON'T FEED TROLLS!!! I'm sure if everybody simply didn't read CC's posts, or didn't comment, or agreed with him (tongue in cheek) he'd get bored. But lets not get censorious. We are perfectly capable as a community of dealing with this without resorting to telling tales to Miss... we can just ignore him..

I wouldn't worry if you're looking at around 60,000 words at present. As has been said, the extras will bump it up quite a bit - footnotes, bibliography, appendix etc. My supervisor always says that a shorter thesis is immeasurably better than a long, wordy one, unless that long one is packed full of wonderful stuff ;-) Our word limit is also 80,000 - he has told me that anything between 60k and 85k will be acceptable.

======= Date Modified 17 Feb 2011 10:52:57 =======
I will at least have read the abstracts and skim read everything I include - but I don't think anybody would read in full every single book/article in their bibliography. I do know of people in earlier degrees who went through the university library and took down the details of all books in their field and included them... not good practice! With regard to referencing other writers' quotations, its a dodgy thing to do Ias they can be quoted out of context or incorrectly. I try to locate the original source and quote then reference that, or if that's not possible then I come clean ;-)

I agree in that I've never heard of the fees being waived - one of the big things about getting funding of any type is that the fees are covered - some scholarships are fee only, others offer a maintainance grant also. Is there no internal funding within your department? All of our departments have 2 or 3 scholarships a year, they pay nothing like the living allowance paid by the external funding organisations, but do pay fees. If anyone it would be them you'd make your case to. Would they be prepared to fund your fees as self funding is turning out to be a no-go for you. Everything I've ever heard though is that unless you receive funding you pay fees, end of story. Sorry to be negative and I sincerely hope that in your case it is different - I would speak to your department though and your supervisor, but whatever you do don't come across as arrogant and doing them a favour :-S

======= Date Modified 12 Feb 2011 10:07:15 =======
I agree with the others - look at your list of positives - focus on them - that's one impressive list. I actually find the attitude of your supervisors quite astonishing - why let you submit if they think you will fail? It seems that they are extremely unprofessional in their attitude and very unhelpful.

Keep that list of positives in mind - as suggested take them with you - read them, absorb them and then fight your corner and don't let them humiliate you. I don't know your field, I obviously don't know your examiners, but the academics I know have examined, and they would never dream of humiliating anyone and would let you speak and listen to what you had to say. It seems to me that you have had a rubbish experience with your supervisors, it may well be that your examiners can see the promise in you. Keep your mind focused on those positives - maybe you will get the chance to revise your thesis, there is every chance of that. If not... well, lets not go there, but there is no shame whatsoever in an MPhil. Of course we all understand 100% what you're saying - horror of horrors time - but its not humiliation, its an achievement - but thinking positively, with that list of yours there's no reason why you can't be Dr Pineapple

I dreamed that they found out that I'd not actually done a BA or an MA and threw me out when my sup came to my house to see the work I'd been promising but never delivered and found that it was a pile of nursery rhymes.... that was a bad one! I've also had the naked in my supervisory board one (but I didn't realise I was) I'm sure that dream analysts could have great fun with us :-)

There are pros and cons either way. You will not have the depth of life experience that someone older would have, but you have many other benefits. I'm in my early 40s now and couldn't have done this in my 20s, I was way too flighty and had no tenacity whatsoever - but that's just me. Now I'm that bit older I feel more able to deal with it all, to stick at it, and to make judgements than I would have been able to do - but everybody is different and I know quite a few PhD students in their 20s who are far wiser than I am ;-) Furthermore, in your 20s you have the flexibility to really make a go of this. I don't... I'm married, I have 3 children, a house, 2 dogs, cats, chickens, rabbits etc etc - I can't just up and move for a post-grad position - I'm stuck here, and there are only really 3 unis within commuting distance of me - that puts several spanners in the works.

You may find that the comments are out of jealousy - I'm extremely jealous of my younger collegues - they are soooo lucky - they can work when they want, go where they want and have an amazing future ahead of them - not that I'd ever come out with comments such as you are facing!!!! I just wish in many ways that I'd been more mature in my 20s and in a position to do this then!

I'll be spending Christmas Day here with my parents coming for dinner, then Boxing Day at the in-law's house (well, a couple of hours anyway if possible) I have a board paper due in the second week of January that I haven't started writing yet so I'll be working much of Christmas, but being as hubby is on nights all over Christmas and New Year I'll have plenty of evenings to work :-/