I think so long as you're upfront and honest you will be fine. The uni staff know that we can't live on fresh air and need an income, the only thing I'd say, and I'm not sure if it applies at your uni or not, is that if you work over a certain amount of hours (in our case 10 a week) then they prefer you to study p/t as the workload of an MA is so intense. I've just had to get special dispensation from the grad director to work 10 hours as a phd student and that was only allowed as I am working as an RA on a project directly related to my phd. I may be that they are tougher with me as I have a uni scholarship (not a funding body which has a 6 hour rule) but I don't think so. It may just be worth your while seeing if you can find out quietly if your dept does has a ruling on this - I'm sure that not all do, but there are some, and they are there for a reason - the work is so so hard and intense, much harder than my BA and even my PhD! It shouldn't in anyway affect whether they accept you or not, that depends on you and your ability and as you aren't funded and need to live then they may make an exception which is usually down to your supervisor and your dept grad director, or suggest going p/t. Just try and check, with the grad school if necessary - I'd hate for you to get going, keep working, then find out further down the line that they don't allow above a certain amount of hours in term time that you could have got around through talking things through :)

Oh Bug. I'm so sorry to read this, how tragic. I can't begin to imagine how it must feel for them, or rather I wouldn't want to imagine that - absolutely terrible, it really is the stuff of nightmares for that poor family and those poor girls seeing their father like that. You are right, happiness is so very transient, again getting results and the awful jolt of persepective hitting. I feel so sad for you and your family. I hope that soon, when the shock of this has worn off, you will be able to gain some pleasure from your scholarship and the fact that your hard work is paying off - I am genuinely delighted for you in that, but as you say, sometimes things like that just pale into insignificance when a tragedy of this magnitude hits people you know and care for.
((((((((((((((((((hugs bug)))))))))))))))))))))))))) thinking of you xxxx

I actually find this all very disturbing. The fact is (as I see it anyway) that to be able to be known as a Master of Arts, or a Master of Science, the holder of that title should have worked for it, not handed over a few bank notes to somebody else to do it for them. That anybody couldn't have passed without cheating in now way validates that decision - you would then be claiming to be something you aren't because you couldn't do it.... Now, I don't think for a second that any of the posters here who are admitting to using these services couldn't do the work, maybe they ran out of time, maybe they found it tough going, maybe they didn't speak to their supervisor and get extensions... I don't know. What I do know is that they will be titling themselves as 'Joe Bloggs' MA, BA - possibly with a darned good grade, but they haven't earnt that grade and that makes me so angry. For so many of us, well, all of us, we made sacrifices, we worked so damned hard to make those deadlines, get the essays in, work, work, work, and now we have our degrees and we can be bloody proud of that. How can you be proud of cheating your way to a degree by handing over something that you didn't do? I don't understand it, and I'm upset that when so much in the way of funding etc depends on the marks on your grid, that those of us who worked so hard for our distinctions will be up against somebody who has that, but couldnt' actually do it, and so paid somebody else to do it.

I'm just quite shocked that people would do this - what the heck is the point of going through the academic system if you hand in work that you haven't done?

I'm saved!!!!!! :-x How did we get this far without you??? I'm going to tell all my friends who also have no clue what they're doing but somehow got themselves a Phd position and it'll be so much fun! Thankyou!!!

Oh and bug.... I love that link!!

*feels all emotional now her saviour has come*

I'm saved!!!!!! :-x How did we get this far without you??? I'm going to tell all my friends who also have no clue what they're doing but somehow got themselves a Phd position and it'll be so much fun! Thankyou!!!

Oh and bug.... I love that link!!

*feels all emotional now her saviour has come*

======= Date Modified 27 May 2009 23:14:01 =======
I must confess I've found this whole thread a little confusing. Ok, first up I'm one of the older ones, I'm 39 now, but several of the other research students in my dept are in their 20s, some of my closest friends from my ug and ma years are only now 22 or 23 - age doesn't actually matter in the slightest! Similarly my supervisor must be around 50+ - not sure really, and yes, I do feel like I'm getting old - heck I'm 40 later this year, you are 23!!!! (Incidentally I was married and had had my first child by your age, and remember freaking out when hitting 25 convinced that my best years were behind me - what utter tripe that was!) You have the world at your feet - be yourself, be your age, its lovely - trust me, most of the older students are quite likely jealous of your youth and your energy! Either that or they just don't even notice it - I can sit and chat to my friends and there is no difference, age is a state of mind, not a number, and that (apart from the effects of ageing on the body) is a fact imo!

Now, this business about celebrity - I'm very confused by this. I can't quite understand what you are getting at - and please don't take that personally, I just don't see why you'd want to be 'out there'. I'm first year Phd too and quite frankly I have NOTHING to say that the world would be interested in - I have enough trouble creating excitement in my dept with others in my field lol. A Phd and research is an intensely personal thing - the rest comes later - possibly. In my field it would be to achieve the 'fame' of Simon Schama or David Starkey - but, to be honest, I'd prefer the respect of my academic peers than the fame of the masses where I'd have to dumb down my work, speak in words of one syllable to make it intelligible etc. Maybe I'm doing myself and the rest of us down here, and if this comes over the wrong way then I am truly sorry and I hope you get what I mean - but why should the world want to listen to us at this stage any more than they would wish to listen to a check out operator? We work in such tight and focused worlds that others in our dept have no clue what we're talking about. Our whole purpose is to produce something original and highly academic, not to be popular to the masses. As I say, maybe that will come later when we've served our apprenticeship. But in the same way that there are very very few 'stars' that make it and are listened to who have a 'voice', but tens of thousands of 'little people' who work in the background but without whom the entertainment industry would never survive - in academia there are a handful of household names - David Starkey, Hawking, ermm...... lol.

I'm sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick here too

The others are quite right as always :) I think most students go through this, I've done the drama queen mail to my supervisor on more than occasion - he doesn't reply, I come crawling back, apologise, he tells me to breath and not panic, and we carry on as normal :) I often think he is a complete saint to put up with me lol! I know that I have relied on him too much, and him kind of taking off the stabilisers a bit upset me at one point, but now everything is fine again - he's great, extremely professional, and like you I respect his opinion - it still stings a bit though when there are more notes on the paper than words in it and almost every line has some comment or other, but I tell myself that it can only make it better and that I should be glad that I have a supervisor who will not let anything slip. I'm sure that supervisors are used to this and they have been there and understand the incredible pressures that we are under and expect a blow up every so often :)

Wow, that is quite some feat! If I'm on a roll I can normally manage around 2-3K a day, having said that, I wrote 1.5K yesterday and was worn out and everything I tried to write after that was utter rubbish - so I'd agree, you'd have to split it up and make sure you get good breaks in. I tend to splurge it all out then spend another week going back over it to edit and turn it in to English lol. I wrote the whole first draft for my MA dissertation in 8 days and that was 20K words so it is possible, but its exhausting. Hope you get it done ok :-) I thought I was hard done by having to get my board paper written and submitted by the 15th at around 10K words lol

I haven't been through this yet, so find it hard to advise, but I just wanted to offer you a huge hug ((((((()))))))))))))) I'm so sorry that you're going through this and are obviously so upset. Please, listen to what's been said, its a HUGE deal now, the worst thing imaginable, so much more work, so much time, so much unknown as yet, and no title. But yes, in time this will be just a blip, like when you fail your driving test the first time (or was that just me lol?) In time, when you're a Dr, all this is behind you and you have your career you may well look back on this and say thank God they didn't accept that first thesis - in comparison to what I produced with a bit of extra work, although at the time it was a nightmare, it was so worth it and I'm so proud of what I achieved.

Listen to your supervisor, wait for the report, sit back, try to relax, see what they have to say, then rewrite it, work on what they had a problem with and it'll all be fine and you'll have a much better thesis for it. Families don't understand, they never will, wing it with them, they don't need to know the details, just that it needed some additions and some revision to make it a bit better, but that you aren't being downgraded - that is the main thing to remember, they AREN'T downgrading you - you WILL be a Dr, and soon!

I can completely see that the very last thing in the world that you want to do after all the work you've done is to get it out again and work on it, just grit your teeth, get through it, and it'll all be really really good - your mum is completely right :-) always expect the best, and EVERYTHING, in some messed up and weird way, always seems to happen for the good - we just can't see it when we're stuck in the cr*p

Take care, breath, you're gonna be a Dr soon, it'll all be just fine xxxxxxxxxxx

I'm just about to start working around 10 hrs a week as RA as of, ermm, this week! I'm fortunate in that my job will be based in the dept and is closely linked to my Phd work, but I have no doubt that it will be extremely hard work to keep everything going. To date I've been working 3hrs a week and that has been hard enough, especially when deadlines are approaching. I do think though that most supervisors have experience at some level of the real world and realise that to successfully complete a Phd food a few times a week and a roof over your head is very helpful, and if you aren't getting a full scholarship with a good maintainence grant (and even with that!!) then just surviving is hard and you need to work, end of, unless you are very very fortunate.

Sorry I'm late on this, but I'd have to agree with the others. To get funding now would be a very tall order, its normally started around Feb time and I'm surprised that your uni didn't have a timetable in place. The deadlines for the main bodies have passed now, but there may still be time for internal scholarships. Having said that, I would also question, in the nicest way, your decision to go straight to PhD. I'm doing mine now (and going through funding applications again lol) but I couldn't have coped I don't think without have done the masters. Its like a stepping stone from U/G up to doctorate level, my supervisor always said it was like an apprenticeship, and with a good MSc you are more likely to be considered for funding next year. PhD is a long and lonely journey and without that transition and the knowledge gained during the masters it would be horrible (imo)!

If there are still funding options internally open then go for it, nothing ventured and all that, but it is so competitive, and in psychology particularly so, that without a first, or better still a good masters, your chances will be low. Another reason for the masters route I think, if it looks as though you are on line for a 2:1 (and don't let anyone suggest that that isn't a fantastic result - its just that funding is so sparce and you may well be up against people with firsts) then if you do a masters and go for it big time and get a really good result in that it would give you far higher chances of getting the 3 years of the PhD paid for which is the really valuable part :)

Congratulations, I'm so delighted for you! Thankyou so much for an amazing post, approaching the end of my first year these kind of uplifting and encouraging posts with real, solid advice are so valuable in helping on the journey. Well done Dr!(up)

Lol, I feel your pain!!!! People keep suggesting to me that I might like to work through my Phd, cos x, y and z did when they were a student, they had f/t jobs and studied... yawn.... yes, maybe they did, maybe they came out with a rubbish degree, maybe they aren't doing pg and aren't officially working f/t anyway! I must confess that sometimes I envy the office bods sooo much, they roll in at 9, go home at 5 and then the rest of the day/evening/weekends/holidays are their own, something that for those of us made enough to do this simply doesn't happen - the last week I've been working til 1 or 2 am most mornings - I have children so I can work from when I drop them at school til they come home (damn the half term coming up!) but then I have to be 'mum' til bedtime, then I can work again, although sometimes hubby says can we have an evening - yes dear, just let me write up these few pages, will be with you sometime soon. Other weeks I'm not so busy, these few are a killer, being going through AHRC joy again, now writing 2nd board paper for submission on June 15th, also moving house on June 19th, and have board on June 22nd, then I'll take a break for a few days while I unpack..... I have time for a f/t job and I'm just lazy, I must admit that :-p (although I do have a small pt research position in the dept now)

I just get so sick of people asking when I'm going to get a job, calling me an eternal student, layabout, etc etc. I've even been told with a smile but I think there was an element of snipe about it, that I suffer with lazyitis and don't want a job. I'm a mature student, I'm in my late 30s now, and in my whole working life I have NEVER worked so hard as I have during the last couple of years of the BA once things started to hot up, the MA (OMG) and now - I work regular 7 day weeks, approaching deadlines will work to the early hours (as I say, I have to work around kids as well so work when I can) and I'd LOVE a nice regular job - I could laze about all evening, all weekend, I'd have holidays off (remember them????) I'd get paid money and could afford to buy stuff, heck, I would have time to go shopping - utter, utter bliss! BUT, having worked so bloody hard, for so many bloody years and sacrificed so much in terms of financial, family, general life I WILL see this through to the end!

Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant of my own didn't it - didn't mean to hijack the thread, but this is something that does get me quite a bit, sometimes I laugh it off, other times it just hurts, even hubby doesn't seem to get the idea that mine is as much a f/t job as his is sometimes. Just because when I'm studying I often work from home (see kids comment) its like I don't 'work' grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I do think though that as has been said, if you haven't been through this you can have no real understanding of quite how hard we do work, the pressures on us, the strain of it all - it looks as though all we do is mess around reading, writing a bit, maybe going on trips to look at stuff, and having a blast while the rest of the world is in work. Fortunately we have a few friends who have now completed their Phds and will rant back at hubby if he starts up lol, and support me fully and know what I'm going through - that helps no end.

So.... in conclusion lol, sorry about my own mini rant, and yes, I think its something that most of us come up against. Never mind, we will be Dr soon(ish) and will have achieved our ambition and our dream and that is something that NOBODY can take from us, and them... well, they'll have ermmmm, yeh, done their job that they prob hate and gives them little sense of achievement and unless really lucky they can't class as a dream come true anyway :-)

I did my literature review this year so the pain is still quite acute ;-) I read and read and read, following references from each article and book to spread the net as wide as possible and made handwritten notes on each, some are pretty bare (I'm a margin of the book/article type note taker), some are covered and highlighted etc etc, some were obviously irrelevent so weren't disgarded as such, but placed into a file of 'interesting articles - but not directly relevent at the time'. I think my method of writing it all up may be more aimed towards the humanities disciplines but in the field that I am researching there are two quite distinct camps and some academics semi floating between the two, so from there is was relatively easy to define the areas of concern and place the articles into almost for and against camps and from there it was simply a question of writing up the findings, the stances taken, the arguments as they stand and their development over time etc etc.

I am not organised enough (to my shame) to write summaries of each and every article/book I read - I do try, but I more make a note on the front of the main thrust of the argument so I can see at a glance which side of the fence they fall in and then highlight, margin note etc throughout the body of it as I'm reading. The main ones I'll then read again a few times over the write up process as so often you miss little points on the initial read through. I too find it hard to simply 'read' - I find my mind wondering and prefer to be colouring in ;-) and to be honest, by the time you've read dozens of the darned things you can't remember who said what and where and waste so much time reading back through trying to find what you thought you'd seen so I would recommend taking out shares in highlighter manufacturers.

I do think though, and this is something that my supervisor pointed out, that you have to work the way that you work. Some are much more for writing notes into a word or similar document as they go, some prefer the piles of handwritten notes, some prefer the colouring in and margins, and most end up doing a mixture, but the most important thing when preparing this is that whatever system you use you ensure that you have enough pointers to know what is where - for me my scribbles on the front of the articles or post-it notes on book covers is enough in most cases, sometimes I make something more detailed. For others its writing that summary and filing it, but just make sure that you don't waste time having to find it again. U/G and MA essays are bad enough with the books, but during the course of a Phd you will have read so very many pieces that you can't hope to remember where you read what :-)

Sorry I'm so late on this one - had a manic few days, but...........Massive congratulations Dr Ruby - that is wonderful news, and thankyou so much for your detailed post! For those of us still to face it at some point its so useful to have a real idea of what is to come and how to handle it. I'm absolutely delighted for you! It must feel completely surreal for it all to be over so quickly