Anyone out there tonight? It all seems to have gone a bit quiet on the nocturnal front.

I've hit another low in my work, so I'm debating pulling a long night with coffee to push through, even though I have an early start at the lab. This way of working seems to go against all good sense and self care (my husband rapped my knuckles for my habits of excessive hours and living off whatever was in my desk drawer) but perhaps you just need that sense of intensity to work sometimes.

How does everyone else work at their thesis, do you just immerse yourself in one section at a time, or do you flit about from section to section? I'm still doing my research so I feel as if I have half a dozen poorly remembered topics mushing about in my brain, then I sit down to write and I don't know any one well enough :-s

Ok, enough self pity, lets try and start a chapter based on an existing paper, how hard can that be?

Hey keep calm

Don't be too down, it's not as if you've sat back and ignored the issue, your supervisor's already seen several drafts in evidence that you're trying to tackle the problem! How about putting together a brief summary (just a couple fo lines per draft) of what you've tried so far and why it fell down. The maybe a list of what you've learnt and where else you think you could use what you learnt from it. Admit that you're totally stuck and ask your supervisor's expert opinion, after all, if he/she can't guide you through this, why are they a supervisor? Ask what they would do in your shoes, do they have any contacts who know a lot about this, what do they think of your previous drafts and your approach? And maybe you do just need to leave it be for a little while, sometimes it is a good idea to focus elsewhere and come back to an issue with fresh insight, I do it in my labwork and it's amazing how your perspective shifts.

And remember, worst case scenario you have a supervisor who is temporarily not overjoyed with you - it's part of the process. Doing a PhD is hard and if you're genuinely struggling rather than being slack, then I'd hope that any decent academic team would support you.

It's a punch in the sensitive region isn't it? I got a paper knocked back a couple of weeks ago and it hurts. All three of my sups and our best post-doc thought it was great, but the journal just didn't agree. I say kudos for having the guts to submit in the first place and don't be too hard on yourself.

As for why, it doesn't automatically mean that your writing is troubled, nor that your supervisor has bad judgement, there's a lot of luck in all this too. Journals quite frequently change their criteria for studies, they have issue themes that they like everything to fit with, and sometimes you and the reviewer just don't agree. Has your supervisor had other students complete their studies in the past? If so, I'd chalk it up to a crappy experience with the reviewers (who, let us remember, are basically the competition) and maybe some hints you can take before its too late in the day to revise your writing.

Maybe you could submit elsewhere with a different list of suggested reviewers as well?

Take heart Riship, this is just a natural part of academia!

This may help http://jcs.biologists.org/cgi/content/full/121/11/1771

(and if not, know that most of us here feel stupid on a regular basis, myself heartily included)

Sounds like a productive night was had by all!

Alpacalover, how did the interview go? Hope you got enough sleep to sparkle :)

This thread has inspired me, I've worked all day anyway but I'm going to tackle some papers and notes before bed just to enjoy the night hours.

On which note.... does anyone else feel that they're a little bit gleeful about the arrival of the darker nights? I seem to be delighted with the crisp air and minight skies just now, I wonder if it's just an extension of the nightly peace I've taken to.

Oh yes to the chocolate, send it my way!

Hey shiny

Sorry you had such a rough induction, it's always worse when you thought something would give you a boost isn't it? There's life just slapping you round the chops with a damp fish huh!
Are you feeling a bit overwhelmed by the whole thing perhaps? I think starting the PhD can be pretty intimidating, and when you don't immediately connect with the people you thought could be a support network, that's unnerving.

I promise you're not a PhD anomaly, everyone in my dept is sub-30, almost all single, and I myself skipped the masters (why feel bad about saving yourself a year and several grand in fees?). You should be proud of yourself to have come this far so much earlier than all the others! And I agree with the suggestion of looking into societies, uni is set-up to provide fast networks for students who've just uprooted from everything they know, you won't be alone for long :-)

Hey stresshead
It sounds as if a lot of this is coming from your self-proclaimed tendency to be hard on yourself!
Finishing undergrad uni can be quite a big transition, and moving away from that well-worn support network of friends and department takes adjustment. You've said that you feel very daunted - I'm not surprised! At the start of your PhD it can be terrifying to realise how little you know, how much of a committment you've made, it's like starting a new job times ten.... eek! And if you're someone who tends to worry or doubt yourself (never fear, there are plenty of us on here) I think it can be rather overwhelming. Now your doubts may stem from the genuine intuition that you've taken the wrong path, but at this stage I'd say it sounds more like nerves.

Do I love my subject -yes and no. No matter how much you "love" a topic, there's a lot of daily grind that seems a million miles from those noble thoughts anyway. Will a PhD help you grow as a person - massively, and to be honest, that's all it's there to do. You won't produce the best work of your life in this period, you may well not even be in the field you'll end up in, the point of the PhD is to give you transferable skills as a researcher and academic.

Unless you suddenly have a blinding realisation that you're bored to tears by the topic or hate academia, I'd say hang in there at leats a few months. In the meantime talk to other students, get some peer support and social light relief. Once you get comfortable and establish yourself in this new realm, you can meaningfully reassess. At that point you're as free to go as you are now (contrary to popular belief your supervisor doesn't actually own your soul :p )

Natassia, if you're interested in a PhD and want a tutors opinion, do ask! I was in a total quandry over it before doing mine, and I sent a very rambly email to my final year tutor from my undergrad degree saying as much. He was great and sent me a detailed reply about what a PhD involved and how I matched up to it, gave me the confidence to apply :) The same goes for approaching possible supervisors, they're usually happy to have be approached by students motivated enough to come and seek them out. I was terrified the first time one asked me "so, tell me about your research interests then" but they were very positive, and they're not expecting you to give a doctorate-level answer, that's what the PhD is there to develop.

(Of course I now blame my old tutor for the fact that I'm head-desking here at 9pm on my PhD.....but that's a different matter ;) )

I still have the guilt keeping me coming in every morning but my nocturnal tendencies are kicking in as well now - I had to stop myself coming in at 12am last night after a team pub trip, it seemed oddly appealing at the time.

The only problem I find with pm working is that while the lab staff are gone, the cleaners and security are just arriving :-( I'm starting to get a dog-like response to the hoover (as in grimacing and hiding, not the one where they attack it and bark). That and the mildly creepy security guard who emphasises every conversation by fondling my shoulder.....

Does anyone else find themselves tempted just to stay all night? Not because they're getting masses of work done, but just for the sense of peace?

Mlis, I really feel for you. I've struggled with depression and anxiety my whole life, and I'm currently in a bit of a tricky phase myself. The worst thing you can do is berate yourself for being depressed, it will only make you feel worse. Would you sneer at yourself if you had a disabling physical complaint, would other people for that matter? As for the cancer remark, as others have already said, it was crass and way out of line, ignore it entirely.

In practical terms, could you contact student support and even your local social work dept? You need to find out what benefits or support you're entitled to and clarify your position with the university.
Next up, your doctor sounds no help at all. I've found that GPs vary a great deal, and few are good at all areas of medicine. With both physical and mental issues I've often had to try several before I've found one who truly helped (and these were all genuine health problems, not figments of my imagination as a poor first opinions would have had me believe!). See another GP and keep at it until you find one who really listens. The idea that you don't need medication because you had a clear trigger is so wrong it's not even funny. Yes you may have issues that need resolving them, but you may well need the support of medication to help you do that.
The counsellor doesn't sound as if they understand you or your needs, this kind of thing is very individual and again, don't feel bad for trying someone new. If the counsellor keeps setting you goals you can't meet then clearly that's not the approach you need. If money is tight then some private counsellors offer a means-tested pay scale. Look up local depression alliance and support groups too, you'll be amazed how much of a comfort these can be.

I couldn't help thinking as I read your replies, that you're just piling on so much pressure. Depression is hard to fight at the best of times, but coupled with this immense fear about your PhD, no wonder you feel as if you're drowning. Could you put the PhD aside for a while, tell yourself you're NOT going to try and write, and just focus on getting well first? Even for a few weeks, just give yourself a chance to let go of the guilt and the pressure, get a bit steadier then go back to trying to write. The way things are just now, I worry that you've gotten yourself in a cycle where you keep fulfilling your fears and setting yourself up for failure. We can only handle so much at any one time, and there's no shame in admitting that. I know the temptation is to compare yourself to everyone around and think "I'm such a failure, they're all coping" but the truth is many of us will experience mental illness at some point, it's not a reflection on your worth or your character.

I get this too, fair enough when it's a slight evolution from a previous test, but true innovation stuns me. I often stand and look at our massive DHPLC machine in awe....until it promptly breaks and I "fix" it by rebooting. Then I feel smug :)

.......Great to know you enjoy it, do you find they're good at supporting your research efforts and enabling you to gain generic skills (ie presenting at conferences, publishing etc)? Is there a system in place for monitoring progress beyond supervisor meetings? Just ask as I've seen friends scuppered by a poor supervisor and no external checks. Lastly....and this will sound bizarre, how conventional are they? I know most academics don't take what's on your head to correlate with what's in it, but I have concerns as to whether they'd appreciate my colourful hair :s
Sorry for the 20 questions, if you honestly don't mind replying to one or two then I can check here, otherwise my email is manga_kitten @ hotmail.com. Cheers!

Hi Gizmo, thanks for that! I'm flying over from Norway for the interview (Im English, just here on contract) and time on site will be brief, so it would be great to get the lowdown from a current student :) If it's not too specific then any info regarding their interview approach or Colin Farquharson as a supervisor would be much appreciated (he seemed nice but everyone has their own way of working and it helps if you match).
continued....

Amy Tan is great....nice to see I'm not the only one slightly hooked on oriental fiction