I don't think this is particularly usual to be honest. It's basically like an undergraduate dissertation project. The student doesn't get paid. Most of these projects in my department aren't "real", the supervisors just run the same ones over and over again with different students every year. They generally take a hands off approach anyway, so what the students produce wouldn't necessarily be well executed, or interesting or particularly publishable. The difference is I actually need this research to be successful, so I've closely guided the student to make it work. Like Tudor said, it's my project, but I don't have time to do it myself so I've got a student to do it.

My former supervisor said it would depend on whether the student got any results. If they did, then they should be included on the paper, if not, leave them off. So, sometimes undergraduate projects are a small component of PhD students' research, but they probably don't get round to getting an actual result so they wouldn't be on the paper that arises from the work. This is what happened to the undergraduates that I worked with in my PhD. They weren't on any of my papers. I didn't even acknowledge them because whatever they were doing didn't work.

I will check with some others in the department next week, assuming there are any not on strike of course...

I'd have a backup plan. I'd be applying for other postdocs whilst I wait to see if the grant came through. I'd also try to get something out there asap, a review paper, a conference talk, something to look like more publications were on their way. Apply for small grants.

You'll find something. I have a friend who was in a similar position to you that just got an awesome postdoc, so it happens. Don't give up yet.

Maybe don't go abroad yet - sounds like you need to have a healthy pregnancy too.

I wish you all the best.

I know what you're saying pm133, and this is probably a case of what works for one doesn't work for all.

I think an experienced supervisor knows when to get involved and when to hang back. As you said, the level of input changes over time and varies person to person depending on need. Of course if you're perfectly fine on your own and need no more input then it would be extremely annoying to have someone hovering around you all the time. I'm not talking about that.

It's just about giving someone the space to discuss their work when they need to. Coming into the lab is my supervisor's way of saying "I'm here if you need me", not "I'm here to check up on you". Plus, it's his work space too.

Luckily this style worked for me, but I'd have been fine if my supervisor had had a different style. I would just have got on with my PhD regardless.

I don't think you can take 5-6 years to do a PhD in the UK? Unless you're doing it part time of course.

I would stick to where you're at. You can still work with your second supervisor and her availability might change as you go through your PhD anyway.

I would certainly acknowledge them either way, whether talks, posters or papers, but that may not be enough.

The difficulty is about whether they have made a meaningful contribution I think. The project is very short so I have had to give a lot of direction otherwise they wouldn't get any results, so in this way it's a bit like being a technician. On the other hand, if the project was longer I know they would be much more independent and without their technical abilities they wouldn't have got the results in the first place, regardless of my input.

Long term this would be just be a very small contribution to the overall project, so is it ok to put their name on a poster, but then don't make them as an author on the final paper? I guess I feel there needs to be some sort of substantial intellectual contribution to warrant authorship.

Thanks Tudor. Yes I see what you mean. It's kind of like a technician wouldn't be an author isn't it.

Hmmm.

Anyone else?

Do you need to be fast-tracked? It might sound good but you will end up with less knowledge and less experience the faster you move through your PhD. You've also got less chance for decent publications that you will need to get you a postdoc.

I'm assuming you're not in the UK as UK PhDs are a maximum of 4 years anyway.

I'm submitting a conference abstract, where for the first time I'm presenting my own research, so there's no supervisor names needed.

I've got a MSci student working on the project, but we've hardly got any results yet. All the ideas are mine, he's basically just doing the work under my instruction.

Should I include the student as an author? I'm leaning towards yes. I think I should be first author and corresponding author though, since A) It's my project and B) I'm the one presenting the work and C) They are only an MSci student. I feel like if the design of the project was more their idea, or if they were a postgrad masters student then I would be last author and they would first author.

Any future papers out of this work will be written by me as the student will have left university and may not continue in Science anyway.

Thoughts?

I'm sure it will be fine, especially if you are self funded.