Ok folks, it's 3 in the morning I've just had the kind of evening that would qualify for the equivalent of a lifetime of flashbacks, plus lots of red wine on top of that: Tons of old friends, really old friends, with accompanying memories and partners, some fond acquantances and a bit of family appendages thrown in. And I have one question: WHY IS IT THAT WE ARE ALL SO DUPED and so easily have the wool pulled over our eyes by the opposite sex? I swear, of the couples I know there are kinds

1. The woman dominates and lets the man know what a klutz he is just for being a man ala Wally's previous post.

2. Some really lovely man believes the woman is a saint when she isn't she's actually a lying manipulative low life and he blindly worshps the ground she walks on.

3. The reverse of the above scenario: The man is a total wanker and the woman is an angel who has ruined her life by being married to him for the last 20ish years.

Ohhhh god, are relationships really worth it? You know what, I love all of these people so much, so deeply and for so long, but I just wouldn't want to be in their relationships for all the successful vivas in the world. I get so scared of this wierd delusional dynamic that people seem to get into. Does this make me the female equivlent of Morrisey? Should I just get a cat? I really don't want to be the, long term, object of somebody's delusional fantasy

Maybe I'll regret writing this post in the morning when I'm sober, but it makes sense now. I hopw the list makes it more coherent.

Hi Eska, it's a shame there are so many dysfunctional relationships around you - they're not all like that. And you're generalising a bit!! In my circle of friends there are lots of long-term, equal relationships where the people involved are not deluded about each other, see their faults, love them anyway and are happy. I'm in a very long-term relationship too, and I don't think either of us is manipulative, worships the other etc. Just two people who still love each other and are still the best of friends.

It can work Eska! Don't get a cat for the wrong reasons - but do keep listening to Morrissey (!!). ;-)

Thanks for replying Sue, I was joking about the cat - I think Morissey had one for a long time, that's all. A cat would not fit my lifestyle, it would need a permananct that I cannot offer.

To be honest, I used to think like you, that most of my frends were in happy, healthy relationships, and they would say that they are, still. They are happy in their delusions, usually one partner about the reality of the other's character in some way - that's what I see. But I really think people are so easily taken in by the opposite sex and will believe any old b******t if it fits some convenient picture. Most men I know have been totally hoodwinked and manipulated by a woman and have never really realised to what extent - very often, they will count said woman as the love of their life and pine hopelessly if separated from her.

Hi Eska,

I'd stick with the cat-or a dog(up)

Over the years I've changed from a hopeless romantic to a hardened cynic where relationships are concerned because I've observed so many dysfunctional partnerships. I've also been a part of 2.

I decided some time ago that I'd be much better off on my own and that has proved to be the case. A little part of me still wants the Knight in shining armour to arrive, but it's unlikely now as women become invisible past the age of 50!!

Don't get me wrong, there are a few exceptions in my circle of family/friends, but generally I listen to all the problems, pick up the pieces and provide the shoulder to cry on whilst mentally giving a huge sigh of relief that I don't have to put up with all this stress anymore;-)

Don't give up hope Eska! not all relationships are like that, me and my hubby are just best friends with privileges :-)

Perhaps these relationships aren't what they seem as well. I know a few couples who I think 'christ that's a nasty relationship' - I've sat in the pub when my friend screamed at her husband in front of the whole bar "you are such a &*^^% husband, you are the worst man EVERRRRR" and I really felt for him, but then I realised its all a show really, they love each other, but like to pretend to the rest of the world its some dysfunctional relationship - think the couple on gavin and stacey who are always arguing! So maybe the man isn't getting that much of a raw deal after all?

Eska, I was being flippant with the post you refer to. Your post does disconcert me though because I actually know what you're getting at. I don't think you should regret writing this post because I think it's an important, existentialist matter that concerns the human condition.

'WHY IS IT THAT WE ARE ALL SO DUPED and so easily have the wool pulled over our eyes by the opposite sex?' - For all our critical reasoning skills and supposed logic, we're still bound by the laws of nature. That's why Texan billionaires get themselves really young wives - and you just know that it's never going to work.

2. 'Some really lovely man believes the woman is a saint when she isn't she's actually a lying manipulative low life and he blindly worshps the ground she walks on.' That's called being in love and, as you'll know: Amor caecus est!

3. 'The reverse of the above scenario: The man is a total wanker and the woman is an angel who has ruined her life by being married to him for the last 20ish years.' It can happen this way round to.

Are relationships worth it? I think that they sort of are, if you're not happy being by yourself and want to share life with someone else. There are a lot of conveniences that go with being in a relationship. But there also a lot of inconveniences... It is sort of a delusion and when it breaks down, things can turn rather nasty. I think the men you refer to that pine for lost partners are the result of people who invest themselves too heavily. Single life changes dramatically when you switch from 'vacant' to 'engaged' and then when what may be a delusion ends, you have to undergo the transformation back to living your life as it was originally. This can be painful and sort of scary.
I think you have to have very thick skin, always be aware that ultimately you have only yourself and that things can change very quickly in ways that you can never anticipate. Eska Postgraduateforum.com (that'll do as your online surname), this time next year your life could be very different and you may have a completely different perspective. As for getting a cat, good God, don't. They pee in corners (it really stinks), they scratch furniture and you could end up with a psycho.

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Hi all, thanks for your responses, I'm feeling a bit better today, I can think of a few worhtwhile relationships, and some of the others, I guess, are just not what I would want, but they makes others happy.

I just had a really bad experience last night, with my niece's ex-boyfriend offering me some intense and unrelenting 'advice' on how I need to do more for said family member because she is younger than me and I do not do enough. He had all these assumptions about me born of down right fibs he'd been fed, about me being a totally selfish person, which I am not, I have risked my health for my neice, my relationship with my father and given up great chunks of my youthful freedom and scarce cash to care for her as a child - all this is besides hospital treatment I needed after a serious physical assualt from her - for which I have never had an appology. So, I am told that I need to do more and give her everything she wants because she is younger than me and vulnerable. OOooppps I just flashed forwards to me sitting in shady pines being fed arsnic flavoured chocolates by my young relative to whom I gave everything, in-spite of all the bollocks. I wonder how that happened????

So - all I wanted was to thank my neices boyfriend for looking her so well when her mother was dying, for keeping her together for that period, and I got all this crap. Oh! plus a lecture on my relationship with my father, about which I imagine he know J-s***. The boyfriend had been a really good influence on my neice: no verbal abuse or serious manipulation for well over a year, plus she stayed sane during that horrendous time in her young life (she's 23).


I want my boyf - when he appears - to love me, not a load of old bull-shit, and I want to see him properly too. That seems like quite a difficut thing to find from where I'm sitting, but it's that or nothing for me.


Thanks to you all XXX