Am 2 months into my PhD-had 4 meetings with my 2 supervisors (1 of which they forgot about).
My supervisors
1. often don't read summaries I send them before the meeting
2. always go into details of experiments (which I don't want to go into)throwing me off course making me forget what I really want to say- which makes me feel like shit.
3. are not experts in my research area(I'm looking at motor control and parkinson's- they are motor control experts- no knowledge about parkinson's).

They tell me that I am getting stuck in the experimental paradigms and not really looking at what are the good basic theories behind them.

I need to stop feeling like a puddle of dog poo after meetings.(usually have a teary/crying session post meeting-no office mates to talk to,very lonely)

Do I really need to know each and every paper that I talk about like the back of my hand, or are my supervisors just being pedantic?

Are skimming papers for ideas ok, or equivalent to just reading round and round in circles?

My partner says I beat myself up too much for not knowing every paper like the back of my hand.

H there,
Sorry you are feeling so bad after 2 months into the PhD programme. Expecting you to know the articles throughly at this stage of the PhD is very cruel indeed. If you feel that your sups don't really understand your research interest, this might be the right time to speak to the Post Grad Research Tutor and possibly change supervisors. Are you self-funding, dept funded or external sources (eg ESRC) funded?

It is always a problem when supervisors aren't au fait with a particular aspect of your work. This, naturally, makes them gravitate to what they are comfortable with, hence distorting your argument. Lots of people have this problem. Its rare, I think, to have all of your supervisors with full knowledge in a specific area. On the other hand, it is a strength that they can all bring different perspectives to the project.

What if you chair the next meeting? Set up an agenda, go through it point by point and so you are directing the subject and ask them chip in. This way you are in control and if the conversation begins to digress into other areas, you can reign them in. It also shows if they understand (or have read) your summaries. Group sessions make individuals accountable against their peers. I always prefer to chair my own supervision meetings.

Good luck.

Thanks for the supportive messages, they do help!!

I do try to take the reins in the meetings in the start, but it always ends up them digressing towards one article I cite which they think are weird- (which i didnt realise were weird because i didnt read them carefully enough) and being from an Asian culture I'm not very able to talk over them (and tell them they're going into unnecessary nittygritty details).

I will set an (timed?)agenda for the next meeting, and make sure we go through all the points (today we went up to page 2 of my 5 page document because of digression!!! )

I am self-funded- I pay AUD10k a semester because I am an international student in Australia. :(

I don't think I can switch supervisors though...its not that acceptable here. There are no motor control Parkinson's experts where I'm at, unless I start getting supervised by neurologists instead (I'm in psychology)

I suppose I need to just say "Chin up!" and get through this best I can. I just wish I didnt feel so miserable afterwards.

I had an idea--I might opt to talk to my supervisors one on one before each meeting- just to go through what I've sent them (and ensure they READ what I've sent- they usually dont!!) - so before each meeting, they're well versed with what I've sent. Now it just feels like they're both always playing devil's advocate..why the ideas I give them are non-credible. they don't give enough positive feedback!

Supervisors have a nasty habit of doing what you've just described. Throughout my entire first year when i was getting EVERYTHING wrong, i walked away from every meeting feeling 2 inches tall - believe me, it's a very common feeling.

Things will get better with time, one day you'll realise just how much you've changed and how far you have come. Just keep at it!

I agree with Aloha - sups who are not that au fait with the research area tend to concentrate on bits that are within their comfort zone, and in your case, nit-picking the article(s) you cited.
I do however, disagree with Sim - that its common for PhDers to feel 2 inches at the end of a supervision session. Supervisors are expected to support and encourage, not bash the student to a pulp!
If you are paying 10k a year, the uni will definitely want to keep you happy and they will try their best to find you a supervisor if the current team is incompetent.

I can totally relate to this! (See my other post). In response to feeling really deflated after a real verbal beating from my supervisors, I turned the tables on them. I gave them feedback on how I was feeling; that they had made me rather distressed, unworthy, and just basically made to feel like crap. In response, I've received a series of very apologtic emails from them all just saying that they thought it was necessary given that I'm running out of time. After such extensive criticism, within their apologies they've outlined the strengths of my report, work and my hardworking nature-in an attempt to balance it all. One of my supervisors is blantaly trying to make a special supportive effort to see that I'm ok-which is nice.
Bottom line, their role is to provide support, not to damage your self esteem and consistently make you feel like crap!

hey, I am not clear about the changing supervisor stuff, but do have something to say about the "digression of topic".
It is utterly wrong to constrain someone's thinking in anyone else's pattern; so it is your research work, don't let them talk something else. I have been through this; you won't learn anything just being dragged around.
since you are paying the university, I do think you can just tell them "back off, I am a customer, and I am not happy with the service I am provided .." of course, be diplomatic when saying this..

there you are! you've got lots of people on your side. you have to find the strength within.

Thank you Sim, Aloha, Pineapple and Hairui!! That does make me feel heaps better :P. I don't quite feel so alone now.

I will write down my plans, paste it in front of my monitor, and implement them the next meeting.

Good on you pineapple for having the guts to make such a positive change!

I will start off by meeting them one on one before meeting both of them (though it will be hard asking for their time- they always seem busy). That way they won't both double whammy me when I meet them both.

If that doesnt work, I will just be brave and spill my guts like you did pineapple!

Thanks Aloha! Yes Strength Within. :D (I was thinking of taking some assertiveness classes or something- I'm from an Asian country and have trouble challenging superiors sometimes).

It is normal that at the begining of the PhD programme to have frequent discussions and sometimes changes to you research questions and directions

find out a way that can make you do what you want, but in a flexible way that meets with their expectations

Good luck