Dear guys,

After an MBA, I spent 5 years in the work place, and then chose to study further. The field I chose was philosophy (I was just too interested in this field and my graduation was not on Philo) and I did an MA from a good UK university. I just got a pass. just 52% - This was because, I had a very severe personal crisis and got a divorce after enrolling for MA. I have applied for MPhil I got one real terrible reference letter, and another average reference letter while applying for MPhil. My research proposal was appreciated by my tutor, and am planning to do a self-funded program.

The poor ref letter, and the marks have just broken me completely. I'm too depressed at the moment, and don't know what to do. I curse myself for not being able to perform well. My whole enthusiasm is gone and I feel like I'm a dumb idiot. Is there a chance for me getting into MPhil?

Hi there, I don't mean to pry but did you inform your university of your personal problems? These things are often seen as extenuating circumstances and are 'allowable' - its difficult to perform at your best under that kind of pressure. You're not a dumb idiot, you're someone who had a lot of problems during their study but still pushed on and completed it, in my book that is one brave person! I certainly wouldn't say that you aren't good enough, its such a shame that your references couldn't see beyond the marks to the person and what they were struggling with - don't let it break you! I would say that there is every chance - they might insist that you take some core courses to train you in your new subject if it is very different from the subject your MBA is in, you could even offer to do that - but if this is what you want to do never give up!

Hey there! Sorry to hear you're feeling so rubbish. I really wouldn't lose hope over the MPhil though- most masters degrees are actually not that hard to get onto if you are prepared to self-fund, which is what most masters students do. I did a combined taught/research based masters and there were several people on the course who had BScs at 2.2 level. I also have a friend who got a 2.2, a pass at masters, and is now on a fully-funded PhD! I would make it clear on your application that you had difficult circumstances during your MA, and put in an application. Is there anyone else you can get a reference letter from so you don't have to use the one that isn't so good? Best, KB

======= Date Modified 10 Jul 2010 13:15:23 =======
Hi Harishvata,
Don't be too hard on yourself! My flat mates are both doing their PhDs in Philosophy and I must say that it's a much harder subject than I had imagined (and harder than most people imagine), so 52% in Philosophy MA at a good university, for someone who had done an MBA before that (had no background in Philosophy), and under your personal circumstances is quite an achievement!

I agree with the posters below - if you had not notified them of your personal circumstances, then you should do so immediately. Also, talk to your referees before asking them to write you a reference (i.e. check the pulse, if you see what I mean). Once you've told them that the reason you had achieved 52% was due to very difficult personal circumstances, and that you're confident you can do better under your current circumstances, ask them if they think you could do an MPhil or whether they recommend you do a second MA or an MRes. If they give you encouraging remarks then ask them to be your referees - you'll find that different people in your department will have different opinions about your abilities, so you need to find out who are the ones who think highest of you and then ask them to be your referees.

Some departments offer MPhil as one year taught modules and one year research, but these type of MPhils are rare - but they'd be great for you since they combined taught modules (that'll boost your confidence) and contain a large research component. Most MPhils require that you do a minimum of 2 years full-time research. They will expect you to have a high level of technical skills & expertise in Philosophy, similar to someone being admitted to do a PhD. So If you don't feel that you've polished up on your technical skills yet because of your personal circumstances, may be apply to do an MRes or a second MA in Philosophy. But if you're confident that your technical skills are good enough for an MPhil, then don't just stick to your current Uni - apply to other Uni's too. Check out hotcourses.com - you'll find a list of all postgrad philosophy courses in the UK.

First things first though, get chatting to a few members of faculty where you did your MA in Philosophy, explain your circumstances and find those who believe in your abilities, ask them for advise and then ask them to be your referees.

Don't give up! Keep us posted on how things go! (up)

I've just realised that I read your message incorrectly - the 52 is in a philosophy MA? If so apologies, my mistake, I missed that bit (will teach me to read properly!). I totally agree with everything that's been said, speak to them, people can be very understanding - go for it :-)

@ Stressed, Baltar and Keenbean: Many many thanks for the encouraging words. Can't thank you enough. Unfortunately, I never discussed my personal problems with my referees. My dissertation supervisor had an idea ('coz, I had to give him a hint on that while asking an extended submission date for an essay.) He wrote a reasonably ok ref letter. The other ref letter from my HoD was a real real terrible one. Had he told me that he can't write a strong letter, I'd have checked with other people. He told me that he will be happy to help me and kind of backstabbed me. It was my fault too, that I didn't tell him about my personal situation. The reference letters are already gone to the universities, the damage has been done. Yesterday I realised that I didn't want to apply to one particular university, and so opened the ref letters for that university. Thats how I came to know the content of the letters.

I resigned my job and all my savings were invested upon my studies. I had to convince my parents. And then, in between the studies, I had to go back to my country, coz my wife filed for a divorce. My plans were to do MA, then a PhD, and then go back. I'm very very scared about an MPhil offer now. Now I don't know how will I go back with a certificate which just says PASS. Some say that I will get it coz its self-funded. But with the kinda ref letters and my marks, I doubt that very much. I'm waiting for a reply from the six UK univs I applied. I will keep you all posted. Have a great day everyone. And once again, thanks a lot for talking to me.

I'm just finishing a postdoc at a Russell Group university in a cognate discipline. My current dept has been effectively told by the faculty not to take anyone with less than a 60 average at MA level even if they are international students, because departments are now nationally monitored for completion rates in four years for all students and they don't want to take risks. I have no idea whether this is a widespread policy or not. Have you offered any explanation for the weak MA marks in your applications? If not, it might be worth you writing a supplementary letter explaining the situation. You could then also look at each institution and see if they offer a 1 year research track MA eg this at Sheffield http://www.sheffield.ac.uk/postgraduate/taught/courses/arts/philosophy/index.html like another poster suggested, and offer to enrol on that instead, if they don't think you're ready for a research degree.
Incidentally, (this is meant as a friendly warning not to commit a major faux pas, so please don't take it the wrong way) don't mention you opened those reference letters to the people concerned, as they will be upset at what they would consider a betrayal of trust. In the UK, it is the custom (and I know it is different elsewhere, where references aren't confidential or have to invariably be positive) for academics to write confidential and honest assessments of students applying for research degrees. Their own reputation is partially dependent on this among colleagues in other universities, as it is awful for the supervisor to realise early on in the PhD, that the person prof X said was really competent at this, in fact isn't, and is instead likely to contribute to their dropout figures looking bad. If your HoD is looking at an average of 52, and with no knowledge of your problems, then s/he really couldn't write anything terribly positive in the circumstances.

@ Bewildered: You were right, I got the first rejection today from a Russell Group University. The mail also said that their eligibility criteria is a Pass with Merit. This was for PhD. I had applied to six universities. I had applied for MPhil in other places, but this place I applied for PhD directly. :-(

One RG University told me initially that for MPhil, "you will be registered provisionally in the first instance and transfer to full registration during the first year subject to evidence of satisfactory progress." I don't know what this means. Does this mean I stand a chance? I have applied here too..

======= Date Modified 20 Jul 2010 14:42:22 =======
Hi Harishvasta

Most universities (though not all) register students first as MPhil students, and upon satisfactory progress (usually after being enrolled as a full-time MPhil student for 2 years) will transfer the student's status to "PhD Candidate". So anyone who applies to do a PhD will first be an "MPhil" student, and if their supervisory committee decides that their work is up to the PhD standard, then they will be transferred (after the 2nd year) to the PhD programme (i.e. the 3rd year). The reason behind this is that universities are judged by the success rate of their PhD students; if the student enrols to do a PhD but doesn't manage to finish, or comes out with an MPhil, then it doesn't look very good for the university. So to make sure this doesn't happen, the student's progress is monitored yearly, and if their progress is satisfactory, then can transfer to do a PhD (usually) in the 3rd year.

As I mentioned earlier, most universities (for Philosophy anyway) will expect more or less the same degree of qualifications from both those applying to do an MPhil and those applying to do a PhD. The only difference would be the actual research proposal (the originality requirement is much higher for the PhD than the MPhil). If you are enrolled onto an MPhil programme (depending on the university) they might allow you to continue to the PhD if you want to and if they think the work meets the PhD standard.

To increase your chances of getting accepted at a good university why not also apply - as Bewildered and I had suggested - for their MRes (Masters by Research), MLitt or 1 year research track MA? Fro what I've heard (though I might have heard wrong. @ Bewildered, correct me if I heard wrong) it is easier to get onto an MA Research Track/MRes programme than an MPhil. That way you can have a plan B in case you don't get accepted to do an MPhil at the universities you've applied for. This will also give you the opportunity to do work under better circumstances this time round, get better grades and better references. With good grades and good references you would be eligible to apply, in furture, for PhD scholarships and funding. If I were you I'd talk to your referees and tell them you'd like as a plan B to apply for a few research MA's because last time you had problems; tell them you want to get back on track, get good grades and increase your chances of future acceptance on MPhil/PhD programmes. I'm sure that if you explain things to them you'll find them supportive. That way, if you get rejected for the MPhil's you've applied for then you're not left at a loss - you can do an MA that improves your reserach and philosophical skills and puts you in a good position for future PhD applications.

Hi again - is that for an MPhil programme or a PhD? Either way, at our uni you are registered first as an mphil/PhD student and in the second year you are upgraded to full PhD candidate status if you have progressed well enough. It seems to be a fairly normal situation these days - initially you register provisionally and then later on you are upgraded but only if your work is up to standard. From what you've said it would be likely that this would be the case, but its no bad thing, it means that people who find that they aren't cut out for this don't show as failed PhDs and that the uni can spot problems early on.

Don't give up!I fully understand you.I also got bad grades,55% with 2 resubs.But the first time I ever wrote an essay was the first essay I had to submit for my MSc.So,that makes sense. When I asked references for my MSc I actually told me referees to write 7 letters for 7 unis,while I only wanted to apply for 6.I asked from 3 people to give me references,and then opened the envelopes and checked which were better. ;) But yeah, I think it's a good point to have a discussion over your personal issues with your referees.When I was doing my MSc i told my supervisor that I could use all help provided because I was used to a different educational sustem. It actually helped me a lot being honest, my supervisor helped me more than I expected, exactly because I had been honest with my lack of knowledge on essay writing. That's a difference between greek and UK unis,in Greece if you asked for helped you were considered as "dumb", in the UK they see it as a student who wants to do its best...

I 've checked some unis offering '1+3'.An MRes and a PhD.Is it better to apply for a MPhil and try to get into a PhD or apply for a '1+3'???

Guys.. Happy news..!! My university, which is another Russell Group university, has offered me a place. Though I haven't received an official letter yet, my professor sent me a mail saying they have decided to offer a place, and that I should work "harder and more constructively." Well, this is definitely a great piece of news..! (up) :-) (up)
Thanks a ton everyone, for hearing me out and for pepping me up.. :-) Special thanks to Bewildered, Stressed and Keenbean.. mmmuuuuaaaahh..
Now I'm gonna work with my dissertation with more confidence and a smile.. Thanks guys for all the help..

That's fantastic news :-) well done you!!!! Really, really pleased for you and looking foward to you joining us in the madness lol 8-)