Hi all,
I think this is just a vent, I was at a meeting with my supervisor yesterday and we were talking to some Masters students and he was talking about what it takes to do a PhD -I was the example (goodness knows why) but they were asking about how disciplined you have to be to be a researcher (im so not) and my sup used a PhD student in the same year as me as an example saying she worked rigidly and barely ever had to do a redraft just produced steadily when she found the time as she has kids also which she looks after when not working.
I just nodded along but then he (my sup) starts talking about how this woman submitted a chapter for a book which is being edited by an American academic and how it was so good the academic had emailed him praising it. Now my sup isnt even her supervisor. I suppose I just felt pretty rubbish. Im having a hard enough time and have gone off my schedule with a recent illness which im furious with myself about. But I havent got the same amount of pubs she has, but she is also much older than me and is doing her PhD even though she has taught for years.
I dont know I know im being a total complainer but I suppose I just felt a bit crap. Shes a lovely woman and I dont want to begrudge her publications you know?

On balance, I don't think that you do have a point. Obviously, your supervisor is coming across as a little tactless by bigging-up other students and not you, and it is possible he is indirectly having a 'dig' at you, but then again he may have been completely innocent.

So many academics have little to no people skills (hence the fact they aren't working in the private sector!), and they don't recognise when they are insulting or upsetting people. It's just something one has to develop a thick skin and beware of over-analysing situations.

I agree with you miss spacey. Lol maybe im just jealous that my work requires so much redrafting! She has just done so much and I suppose has utilised her professional contacts to the max. Maybe the fact she just seems to find it so easy and quite clearly is their favourite for faculty position, to I suppose resume the one she left just makes me feel a bit useless.
No maybe youre right, maybe he was just being a bit tactless I probably shouldnt read too much into it. Probably just all me.

I think that was rather tactless. There are a always a few people around who seem to breeze through - you don't know what really goes on behind the scenes though (and neither does you sup).

I did a book chapter soon after my duaghter was born. I had to redraft it ruthlesslessly and it drove me crazy - and I'm someone who is thought to write well (as I should - it was part of my job for many years previously). Age and experience can be a great help - I certainly feel it makes a lot of differnce to they way I work. My husband reads everything of mine - my supervisor can tell if he hasn't and openly relies on him to check the English rather than the large-scale content.

probably missspacey is right. but still, i totally get how this makes you feel! when you are doubting yourself (behind schedule and all), it's especially hard to be confronted with others who seem to be just doing everything right. and although you actually don't begrudge their success, the comparison makes you feel all the worse - and you hate yourself for not being happy for your friends... and so what happens is, you withdraw from people just to avoid those comparisons which make you feel so bad. at least that's what happens with me.

there are two main things to keep in mind, i think.
a) those others who are apparently doing so well - they are sure to have their own problems and doubts, too. they're just hidden. but hey, to be honest, do others know of your self-doubts, or do you present a successful, cheerful front to everyone? don't you hide your problems, too? so why assume that everyone else's shiny fronts are real, except yours which is fake?
b) at the end of the day, the quality of your work won't be measured in contrast to others - it will be judged on its own merits. the fact that it was an "easy ride" for someone won't make the thesis look better - nor will the fact that it was hard work for you, make your writing worth any less.

anyway. allow those feelings. examine them and realise that they are just your self-doubt speaking. then discard them and get back to work :p

Liminal,

That's absolutely fine. He is your supervisor: he is meant to be a complete biatch. Generally, that sort of snide sardonic comment is the prevailing culture in academia. Academic politics is particularly nasty because, to paraphrase Kissinger, there is so little at stake. On the other hand (and this is giving him more credit than he is probably due) sometimes managers and supervisors motivate people by giving them a put-down. I am one of those people it works with; a sort of eternal desire to prove them wrong. I know I spent far too much time ruminating over perceived wrongs and slights during my PhD. It was only when I just dug into the work that I changed my entire attitude. The best thing you can do is do your best; never mind what anybody else may or may not be doing, or perceived to be doing. It is totally irrelevant to you, your life, and your happiness. Just work all you can, and you will know you're OK. It is far more satisfying and rewarding and, I find, much more conducive to confidence. There is no reason why you cannot start publishing. With time and practice, you will become a much better writer and thinker. Indeed, if your supervisor is so keen on blowing another student's trumpet, maybe you could ask him to talk to you about ideas for papers and offer you corrections. That should turn the tables.

Yeah, unfortunately, this seems to be the way alot of sups talk to their students. Does not work at all on me, I tend to loose respect and start doubting anything that comes out of their mouths. Just seems so unprofessional and the antithesis of anything I learnt in teacher training. I, like Lim, will have to find a way of brushing this sort of thing off.

Also, this approach to supervision seems to go against common sense - I'd be inclined to think, well, I notice it isn't one of your own demoralised charges who is the shining light of this department. And then knuckle down and proove the oik totally, and absolutley, WRONG. I think this has to be the only way of preserving ones own interests, and avoid imploding. I will NEVER be so unprofessional with my students.

I think it was supposed to be motivational - my sup does it all the time and it gives me a kick up the **** in terms of my work. PhDs can become so isolated and its good to hear what others are doing. However, do remember that some subjects/topics lend themselves to publication much more than others. It could be she just submitted a draft of a chapter to a journal etc and it got accepted, whereas you would have to completely re-write it.

Also think about quality of publication. My Sup says that every 'good' publication i.e. high impact factor journal, is worth 4 or 5 bad publications.

hhhmmmm, I can see that these kind of comments and situations might be supposed to be motivational, but they go against everything I've learnt to be good practice as a manager and as a teacher. To discuss the progress of a student (in their absence)in front of a group of students is OOO for a start. Plus unfavourable comparissons designed to instigate competition invariably set people up against eachother and create a negative environment. Individual situations are just that - individual - and not directly comparible anyway. It seems to me to be a pretty neanderthal way of motivating people. Also, it works for ALan Sugar because the aim of the Apprentice is good TV, not high level education. I'm sure some academics think he is a role model (or would it be Simon Cowel??) I'm suprised this technique works on some, I have to work very, very hard for it not to turn me right off. I find this a really interesting thread because it's something I've had to deal with, and I'm sure I will again through my career in academia. It's just something we all have to face. God help me if I ever get infiltrated!

hmm maybe motivational was the wrong word - I really meant that it means you can track your progress against others. Not thats its bad if you fall behind, its just good to know, so you are not in your own little bubble.

While I see how this may be considered tactless, imagine it from the other point of view.

Your student has busted her arse, worked 18 hour days and really done something that is impressive. You quite rightly feels she needs not only acknowledgement but encouragement, and want to instill in the rest of your team that excellence is achievable. You can either: a) say nothing and play to the jealousy or insecurity of the others. Result: the student feels she hasn't really done anything worthy of value. b) Congratulate her in front of the team and publically validate her achievement. Result: others may feel resentful.

Let me ask you this- When you DO get your PhD are you never going to mention it and never use your Dr title, because it may make people without PhDs feel insecure?

Badhaircut, I agree with you...

a little story. The other day, a certain student expressed to a supervisor that they are feeling 'intimidated' by another student in the department (both have the same supervisor)...not b'cos of any praise etc, but just by seeing a huge amount of productivity...The productive student was informed of this by the supervisor in a way that was very harmless, but this student ended up feeling "what am I supposed to do? I didn't *do* anything, can I help it if others feel 'intimidated'..."

This above is similar to the first case you provide Bardhaircut, of how, a little extra praise, a little acknowledgement for 10 hrs of extra work every day, is perhaps not asking for a lot...in the case above, in trying to prevent anyone from feeling bad, somebody did end up feeling bad, through no fault of their own..

i guess, either way, actually innocuous actions would mean some gloom for some side or the other..

I'd agree you could feel aggrieved if this was a supervision meeting, as that's meant to be about your work not other students', but from what you say it was a conversation with Masters students considering a PhD and you were there as a sample PhD student. So I can't see anything wrong in your supervisor responding to a question with an example of good practice i.e. this other student. After all, if your supervisor thought you and your experience was worthless / better hidden, then you wouldn't have been wheeled out to impress prospective students, and you know what, I bet that one of his/ her other supervisees is currently beating themself up about why you and not they are your supervisor's favourite student!
Seriously though I spent my PhD thinking I was rubbish compared to the confident, productive people who seemed to be all around me, but I got a postdoc and some of them didn't, so I suspect that many of us tend to underestimate our own work and feel inadequate. But it's interesting to see who gets jobs and who doesn't and it's not always the ones you might expect...

BHC - If the student being held up as a shining light had been present, and had been a student of the sup in question your words may have pursuaded me a little. But as it stands, this situation still seems unprofessional in the way it seems only academics find acceptable.

Praise is absolutely appropriate for hard graft - praise from your supervisory team, which is given when you are in ear shot. Inappropriate commentary of work causes so many problems at this level - supervisors comment about students to other students, both good and bad. It seems to me that training in supervision is desperately needed in many cases. Teachers and managers are trained and PhD supervisors need to learn more about actual motivation and appropriate methods of feedback including praise and negative comments.