Hi, I am an international student doing PhD in Australia. I have submitted my thesis and got 2 (minor correction) and 4 (major revision n resubmit). The committee has determined that I need to resubmit my thesis to the 2nd examiner as his comments are significant and cannot be ignored. Essentially he said that my works is not new, and that there are works that are better than mine. he also concluded that he doesn't believe that revision would help much on overall thesis. However, he gave me a r&r instead of fail which is an option in the report (but I am not sure if he can fail me on the first submission). This is in opposite with the other report which only suggests few revision.

I am torn as if I decide to do r&r, it means I have to suffer another year (with tuition fee). The seriousness of his comment on the originality and contribution has sicken me as he is an expert in the field, however, it is subjective issue. The main problem is I didn't know how to fix it as I have a good relationship with my supervisor and she approve everyhing I did before submission. My thesis deals with conceptual thoughts, so it is subjective in nature. I can defend it, but I am not sure he will be convinced. It is highly likely that he would fail me. I am not sure why he would drag me to another year, and just said that revision won't help.


Need advice.

Also, I am not sure if supervisor can contact the examiner to get a more specific instruction, anyone knows?

I'm a bit confused. Are you saying you got an R&R, but you have the option of accepting it or not? What do you mean you can defend it? What does your supervisor say?

In the UK, your two examiners MUST agree on what action is to be taken.

I would seriously ask questions of the process behind your examination if you have such a broad difference. Did your examiners sign off the corrections as R+R? Questions to be asked here.

As far as I understood it's now R&R and the question is if it is worth working another year on the thesis (probably no funding anymore and definitely fees) or if it is better to just quit and leave without the PhD, as it is likely that the examiner will fail the thesis after the resubmission anyway.

I would be also interested in your supervisor's opinion. Maybe you can work on the argumentation to prove that it has at least some new aspects. It is of course difficult as the examiner's view on the thesis will now be biased.

Hi,

Thank everyone for your reply. In Aus Uni, two examiners exam and give recommendation seperately. The committee then decides what to do. Now, I'm ordered to r&r for one examiner, who obviously disinterrested and out to fail me. My supervisor think it is normal to resubmit, but it is not r&r that concerned me, it is the comment that is short (one page) and dismissive. It would be better if he tell me where I am wrong and so I can correct. I'm very stressed and cannot concentrate as it is hard to do when you know it is going to fail anyway.

My supervisor, at least, has the positive attitude, he asks me to think what we can reply without changing thesis. However, I would think he has little on my pass than me and may be less worry. It is not he will lose everything like I will.

If I fail, I would get another examiner, but it would be very sad as I have lost one yr. I would rather he fails me now in that case. I am very demoralized and desperated.

Hi everyone,

Having done a PhD in Australia I can support Up1234's comment. We don't do a Viva or have the option to 'defend' our thesis orally after submission. When we are ready to submit, the thesis goes out to two external examiners, we wait, and the results come back. The examiners do not have to agree with each other, in fact I think they aren't even suppose to be in contact with each other. This is why one examiner can suggest one result, while another can have a vastly different opinion. In some cases, this means the thesis goes to adjudication where a third examiner comes in.

While a pass with minor corrections and an R&R do seem like massively different decisions that might warrant adjudication, it appears that the committee is not regarding it as such.

Up1234, your supervisor and/or committee should be working with you to provide a detailed list of the corrections you need to make. While I didn't have an R&R, I had a pass minor corrections from one examiner, and a pass no changes from the other. My one examiner who suggested the pass minor corrections didn't provide much of anything like yours. We had to 'decipher' the comments. An R&R is supposed to provide a detailed list of changes needed. Seeing as how that hasn't happened, the committee or head of graduate study in your school/department should be providing you some direction as to what revisions and corrections need to be made.

Considering that you have such a massive difference in results, I wonder whether adjudication is needed. Can I ask the status of your two examiners? This might seem silly, but generally, an examiner who is a professor in Australia will have more weight in the examination decision than someone who is just a lecturer.

Hi awsoci,

Thank you for your reply. I have tried to appeal the committee by emails, but they do not seem to care for anything. They said that I need to appeal formally if want to change the decision. They said I have to address comment the best I can, and wait after the examiner decides, and if he fails me then I will get another one. This process has been killing me. The examiner also comments that he believed that the revision would not help much. All other things are criticism and that there are other works that are done better (books) and nothing new. He doesn't even specify how or why.

I wanna ask you as you have done PhD in Australia. Have you known of a fail PhD? What is the worst case you know? I have been told in seminar that there are only 5 failed in the faculty ever, now it seems a little bit too good to be true.

The examiner who gave me a 4 is an eminent but old professor in England. He seems disinterred and lazy to make a recommendation. The other is a retired Australian professor.

I have done a PhD under the Australian system and had a similar experience to yours. I received minor corrections from the first examiner and an R&R from the second. Due to the disparity between the two examiner reports an adjudicator was appointed. Their view was that the first examiner was a bit too easy and the second too hard – with minor corrections (structural) the outcome. In the end, I spent more time addressing the comments of the first examiner, who was far more constructive. Most of what the second examiner wrote was defendable.
Given the disparity between your two examiners was greater than mine, you really need to take the option (which should exist at your university) of an adjudicator. Clearly the R&R examiner has not properly articulated what needs to be done – and this is a requirement of an R&R verdict. It’s likely that the adjudicator will come back with a much more favourable review.
BTW you have to love the traditional English academic system – one that seems to be based on a long-standing tradition of putting selected PhD students through absolute hell because they are deemed unworthy of joining their little ‘PhD gentleman’s club’…

Hi Barramack,

Thank you for your reply. I guess you are luckier than me. As the committee seems to not really gonna change their decision unless there is a formal appeal, and I think it is too soon to offend them by appealing now. I have wrote several emails to the committee. More importantly, my supervisor seems to think it is normal to resubmit despite the quality of the report. Lack of his support, I think it is very hard to win. The adjucator will come after I resubmit and fail, according to the committee now. It is clear that they are aware of the quality of the report but insist that since the examiner who gave me 4 raise the big problem about originality and contribution ( he just said it is not new and give name of few books without saying why) of the thesis, I need to address the issue.

It is preposterous for a thesis committee to allow a student to suffer for another 12 months to produce something that is likely to get the same response by the examiner. It is not fair to expect you to overhaul your thesis based on inadequate and non-constructive feedback. You should appeal as soon as it is apparent that this situation will not change.
You need to carefully consider all your options before you go down the R&R path - and potentially lose your sanity along the way.
Just out of interest, how much have academic 'clout' does your supervisor have at the university and in their chosen field?

Hi, it is apparent that the situation will not change. I would not think the appeal will help as 1. no one supports me on my claim, even supervisor. 2. It is very hard to appeal against the committee as this is not the end process, they think they are giving me a chance to defend my thesis. 3. The appeal, if I win, will rule out this examiner, and the thesis will go to new examiner. However, the reexamination can happen only once, that means I will lose one shot and risk all w the new examiner.

I am very confused now. I hope to talk to my supervisor soon. He has been "busy". He is senior lectuerer, but I don't think he has super 'clout' in anyway.