Has anyone been treated badly in academia at PhD or undergrad level? If so, does anyone have an opinion on why academics and large uni institutions can so easily get away with what I would call "the subordination of students"

well, they get a way coz you are the student and you need them so there isn't much you can do about it, mo so if you need their reference. they don't need you- students come and go. don't let people get to you. in my experience, most academics who treat their students badly have their own underlying insecurities.

bad treatment isn't so bad either- especiallhy if it is constructive criticism. i have this lecturer who always complements my work when i hand it in. one time i opened a reference he wrote on my behalf. it was the most demeaning reference a human being could write for another. he studied in cambridge...so i suppose it has a lot to do with that. only firsts are good enough for him. other than that, i can only attribute his meaness to human nature, some people are just hypocrites.

they are busy and underpayed. They are promoted based on research and prehaps on their ability to interact with industry and funding bodies. Teaching and student relationships are not important in the big picture.
It is dissapointed that there is no customer oriented approach.
Oxbridge is by far the worst for the above.

I've noticed one thing working in a lab this year and that is actually how nice, helpful and approachable the higher academics are. As departments go, the dept. I was in is notorious in Britain, and the professors i worked with have a number of important engagements, yet they always had time for me and PhD students, lab technicians. Criticism was constructive but never harsh. It's a dept. that makes me want to move into the profession

I think it is important for higher academics, especially those involved in well known prestigious labs, to treat their students with great respect, as well as other staff. Let's face it, without PhD students and their research, a department is nothing. If PhD students leave after their PhD there become fewer people with a good knowledge of the department to continue teaching courses (Which is what the majority of PhD students go onto) and to continue to help professors with their research.

Keep in mind that students treat supervisors badly too!

My personal view (as a Supervisor) is to treat my good students well and those who let me down (i.e. don't turn up!) I will be more harsh with

I'm all for constructive critique but, alas, that sometimes does just mean saying "You need to find a different career". I know it looks harsh but it's sometimes for the greater good. If someone has no natural research skill (I hate the word "gift") then they shouldn't be doing a PhD, it won't help them and they won't help the department.

no offence, but why not tell the student your thoughts-clara. it helps. as much as a supervisor can tell which students are talented, a phd i thought, is down to how hard you work. if ur not in ur supervisor's opinion talented, you'll benefit from knowing that you have to work really hard than normally required and you'll make it, not as easily as your supervisor might have hoped, but you'll make it. career-wise, a phd is good for the mind, the student might just win the lotto! who knows? such is life.

Yes, the power of natural selection, and she's a supervisor too.

are you THE Ian Brown - lead singer of the charlatans? Awesome.

Wasn't he lead singer of the Stone Roses?

COMPLAIN if you got poor treatment. Kick up a stink. I did at UCLan and got things changed.

Definitely lead singer of The Stone Roses

Ann , Sly... I bow to your greater knowledge... even so wouldn't it be cool if it was THE Ian Brown. Who was the lead singer of the Charlatans - I used to think he was a honey when I was 15. Very kissable looking lips.

Apologies for the digression, but I've just remembered...Tim Burgess.

My problem is that theres a lecturer at my Uni who never stops enjoying telling me that PhD students are the lowest of the low and, although they of course dont deserve it, its just how it is. But he's the only one who says this to me, and no-one else treats me like a second-class citizen - except for him tellling me that i should be! Its done under a veil of concern but always feels quite manipulative to me.

Zelda: sounds like he's a real jerk - who takes pleasure in making other people feel small? Manipulator is the right description: those sort of people use the "for your own good" excuse to be spiteful under cover of "concern". Tossers.

Sorry, something of a spleen-vent...I had a bad experience with a passive-agressive manipulator once and I'm still wound up over it