Is this ever a good idea? My primary supervisor has become someone I don't even recognize anymore. After my dreaded viva (which I passed but got negative comments), things went from bad to worse. We got another more senior person on the supervisory panel since who was EXTREMLY critical of my work which has left me feeling pretty deflated and unmotivated. My primary supervisor was comforting immediatly after that, saying to take about 50% of the criticsm and throw it away. The following week, however at the joint meeting my primary supervisor agreed 100% with the senior supervisor.

Same thing happened at my viva. Leading up to the viva my primary supervisor who saw me every week, told me over and over again how great I am doing, writing masterpicies even! and really nothing but praise. Cut to viva where I was ripped to shreads and my dear supervisor agreed with all negative things said about me. It's like she will do anyhting to kiss some senior ass.

I have since not even had time to absorb the negative comments properly as at each meeting she repeats those same criticisms (that are pretty abstract I might add) without giving me specific ideas on how to improve the project. Since having a pleasant working enviroment has now gone out of the window, I'm thinking of standing up for myself and instead with agreing with what she is saying to just ask her how I don't understand how she has led me to think that everything was great leading up to the viva when it obiously wasn't and has now done a complete 180 degrees and why has this not been picked up earlier. I might add some more things but am trying to not get on personal attack.

Or should I just sit down, be quiet and swallow the crap being thrown at me.

that's a really hard decision to make.

i too have been subjected to harsh critisism, and sometimes i do stand up for myself and explain the situation from my side. sometimes i don't say anything and just take it and try to put it behind me.

i feel as phd students, we are subjected to alot of crap and expected to just take it. because our phds are at stake. it's almost like we are kept as hostages.

if you think the critisism is unfounded, maybe it might help to calmly talk to her about how it is making you feel. but instead of critisising her in any way. just have a word saying how it's making you feel. that you don't understand and dont feel the critisism is justified. and ways you can make the project better due to the critisism.

I don't know. I ask myself the same thing often but for me I think it really is too late to speak up. I think if I were you, I would try to raise the issues have put here - but as calmly as possible. Don't get angry - just state your issues clearly and ask for a response. She may get defensive and just refuse to acknowledge what you are saying - or hopefully, she may be forced to acknowledge that she is giving you mixed messages (the most diplomatic way I can think of to describe it) and then you both need to agree a better way to communicate in future.

You are feeling emotional, understandably. Take a breath and reflect on an objective strategy which doesn't harm you or your relationship with supervisors. Do you not have an annual review board where you can talk to someone (mentor, senior unconnected member of staff) confidentially about this situation?

These things do happen. Is perhaps your main supervisor inexperienced or lacking in confidence, and looking for approbation from second supervisor?

I would not sit back and take all this crap but I think you need to be clever about this. Write all your complaints down on paper and discuss them with a third party: Someone in your department or college who can give you independant, impartial advice on how to proceed. Then approach your supervisors thrashing out all the issues and discussing how best to address them. If they dont play ball, then consider taking it further up the chain of command

NO matter what you do, try your best to take out all the emotion out of your dealings with your supervisors. Getting angry and upset will get you no where!!! stick to the facts and be professional.

I can understadn your situation.When I had my first year review I kind of knew my report wasn't great but my supervisor had told someone close to him that he read my report, liked it and had no problems with me. When it came to my viva, it was a completely different story. he nothing short of tore me a new one!!

rjb has repeated what I said.

I guess the other problem is that I am very emotional person. Today in the meeting with my primary sup, I was fighting back tears, was on the verge of actually crying in there. My supervisor is inexperienced in supervision and I strongly feel has no idea of what level is PhD project supposed to be at and what's expected from a PhD student and therefore gives inappropriate feedback. I have sensed this in a way and have pushed for getting an additional supervisor long before the viva, but my sup had those grandiose plans of supervising this "brilliant" project alone to show her bosses what she is capable of (she did actually say exactly this at one point).

And now when it's obvious that nothing about about the project is brilliant she is going to great lengths to absolve herself of any responsibility, I mean if a senior person told her to throw me off the nearest building she would gladly do it.

Other thing is that since we had frequent meetings despite the fact that those were spent with her chatting about non-PhD related things most of the time, it's very easy for her to defend herself. But poor supervision comes in many forms and the amount of contact time is not the only one.

I do need to say something, since I have been mutely taking all this up until now. I will write down some points at home and will practise talking about this in a neutral voice. This is all causing me so much anguish that I'm fully prepared to quit so I feel like I don't have much to lose by having it out.

'since we had frequent meetings despite the fact that those were spent with her chatting about non-PhD related things most of the time'

I'd say this was both your and her fault, you need to be more disciplined and see your supervisor as a supervisor, not a confidant or friend and she needs to not go off on tangents. I spoke to my supervisor about random stuff, but ONLY when we had got the PhD things out the way. If you're emotional, think about what you're going to say, before you say it... rather than going on the agressive and say ' You're a crap supervisor' in a guise... say 'Ok, if you agree on what the other person said... HOW would YOU suggest I improve?' and if she's vague, ask 'Could you give me an example please?'

Don't take crap, but don't accuse her of being crap - arse kissing goes on and if your supervisor is the type to backstab you to further themselves, make sure you don't tell them anything you don't need to.

Hi LostinOz, you seem to be in a very similar situation as I used to be. My old supervisor was also quite new, inexperienced etc. She would be very enthusiastic about my project then if another (more experienced) member of staff criticised a point, she would immediately fall into that camp and ignore my argument against (even when that argument was backed up with appropriate methodological tools, theoretical and empirical evidence...)
Fortunately I got a new supervisor half way through the thesis, although this led to a fairly bitter fall-out (I too am quite emotional). You HAVE to get someone else in to support your work. I am not suggesting replacing her, but you need another (ideally senior) member of staff to look at the more structural side of the PhD (what exactly it needs to contain). Ideally, do this in consultation with your current supervisor, but you have to be more ruthless, horrible as that sounds.

Perhaps you can say you feel the need for an associate supervisor to help in a certain area of your thesis? In my case my supervisor and I learnt at about the same time, I was her first honours student and her first full-time doctoral candidate. During the honours degree I asked for an associate supervisor because I felt there was a gap and she did agree though I admit to having to learn to juggle the feedback from both. But in the end because I let them know how I felt, they had mini meetings before they met me and that helped me to make the best of having 2 advisors.

As we are about the same age (yes, I'm pretty ancient) there were times when we could almost have been friends but I did remind myself as she did too and after a while we both arrived at a level where we could be friendly without being best buddies.

There was a point where she was shaky because a senior academic had made some comments about my work. I was hurt and angry but did manage to work my way past that to see that the comments were not totally unjustified. In the end I learnt that for my supervisor to have confidence in my work I need to be convinced of its value myself.

Thanks guys, I apreciate your help as always.

My sup did say a few times that she has been too much of a friend to me and not enough of a supervisor. I guess what puzzles me there is that she has a couple of research aasistants under her and she is quite friendly with them too. I mean not any different than she is with me. It doesn't seem to cause any problems there and yet it's a problem with me.

Is the supervisor/student relationship really any different than boss/staff relationship?

Supervisors also go through 'supervision training' and have annual appraisals. Such opportunities might allow her to reflect on her work.