I just had to complete one of those forms that asks for your cultural background...the choices, as ever, are confusing and don't really fit. It asked you to pick a cultural background and within that, an ethnic heritage, or perhaps it was the other way around, pick out an ethnic heritage and within it a cultural background...

The first choice was straight forward, White, as opposed to the other choices, but within the White choice, you then had to select Irish or British! Hmmm..! I am of some British ancestry, and no Irish that I know of, but I have loads of other ancestries as well, and had no idea what to put. Putting British seemed weird since that is not my nationality even though the form did not seem to mean nationality...

At what point does an ethnicity and a nationality merge--so that British or Irish or Ghanian or Italian are both ethnicity and nationality?

Is American an ethnicity? Or just nationality? With nations being increasingly multicultural, what does this mean for how we identify? American ethnicity would not necessarily be white, it could be Hispanic, black, Indigeneous/First Peoples/Native American, Asian, etc.

I don't think its a test with right/wrong answers. If it really worries you, there's generally an opt out (mind your own business) box you can tick.

I agree with Golfpro.

I have to say that I hate these "ethnicity for statistical purposes only" questions on forms. What's the point? If they really don't matter, why are they on job application forms? I think it's hypocritical to ask somebody if they have a a white british, british-pakistani or white "other" background in the first place. In a non-racist society, these questions should not be asked because everybody should be treated equally! Before everybody gets mad now or disagrees, this is just my opinion and I will never change it on this matter!

There's usually a choice of 'white other', which I would write in if you are bothered by it. The rationale behoind White British / White Irish is that people like me who are white Irish, now count as ethnic minorities and so have to be separated out to allow for equal opportunities monitoring. It seemed to start at the 2001 census. I agree it's problematic in many ways. Cynically, I'd love to know how much of the claimed improvement in employing ethnic minorities by universities and others has come through this classification of white Irish as an ethnic minority...

I can't even answer whether I'm white without getting into a long story - some would say I am - some would say I'm not. I always just put 'other'.

Isn't the whole point of these what you self-identify as rather than your racial make-up or what people think you look like? For instance, my mum always ticks white British, but she's technically a Canadian citizen. I think it would be better if they had a write in section for everything, so you can self-identify as w/ever you like. I disagree with Jouri on this one and do think there's some merit in having the data: being colourblind doesn't mean not being racist, just like treating everyone the same (in the world as it is now) =/= equality.

I was not bothered but confused and bemused. I don't really care a whole lot about putting my ethnicity or color or whatever its being called on some form, although I do think its intrusive. I was befuddled by the choices I had! Which all just goes to show how inexact the whole notion of race/culture/ethnicity/etc. is. I think the best thing, is if for some arcane reason that this information may or must be collected, is just put a line, as another post suggests, and let people fill in what they want, however it is they self-identify.

I can understand about identifying Irish as an ethnic minority. My question was when does something become an ethnicity.

could American be an ethnicity? I don't think it would really be understood as one, but other ethnicities also stand in as nationalities, i.e., British, Irish, what have you. What is the dividing line of when a nationality is an ethnicity? If your nation is multi cultural, then how can a nationality equal an ethnicity?

From my own stand point, I think color blind =racism, just unacknowledged and unexpressed...its a standpoint that comes from white privilege ( etc.). Ask someone who is not white in a white dominant society and ask them how color blind that society really is. The new phrase being used in the US is color conciousness, where you should be aware of color but not use it in ways that are hurtful or negative. I think the US Presidential elections will be very telling about the state of racism in the US.

I recently read an application for the Uni. of Manchester which not only wanted to know my age, gender, race, and disability status, but also my sexuality and religion (obviously to reflect new legislation). While I've always supported equality monitoring (particularly since the Stephen Lawrence case) I felt somewhat uncomfortable about handing over so much personal information to a public body, and pondered whether such information could actually be abused rather than used for equality schemes. Officially all this information never reaches the hands of the interviewers and is simply given to HR for data monitoring...hmmm.

Concerning the distinction between ethnicity and nationality...it shouldn't really be necessary to make one as the definition of race discrimination is so wide that ethnicity, nationality, citizenship, race and colour all fall under it. As these equality monitoring forms are for statistical purposes the categorisations are kept simple and directed to reflect the major ethnic demographics of Britain, not the world.

I can see the confusion though. For instance, on most forms it asks for my 'ethnic group', and I'm offered 'White British', but this actually describes my 'colour' and 'nationality', while my ethnic group/cultural identity is actually 'English'.

I strongly object to those forms. I find them highly offensive and intrusive. For starters, why should a less able candidate get the job simply in order to reflect the percieved ethnic mix of the population. To whit, we should arrest more white people since (I am lead to believe) the largest population in British prisons are of African origin.
Furthermore, whose business but your own is your religion or sexuality - they do not and should not enter into the workplace (certainly not your sexuality!)
Down with "Equal Opportunities" forms!!

I've never been asked for my religion or sexual orientation on a form: just the usual ethnic origin questions.

I see your point, Hypothesis, but I think it would be better if CVs were not allowed to show things like age, gender, ethnicity (however you define that), and so forth. Then again, you're going to find out all those things at an interview.

Actually this reminds me: my supervisor is half-Asian, and his kids look very different from each other: one is blond and blue eyed, and one looks much more Asian. The blond one was was told off by his school teacher for describing himself as "mixed race". His response was "Have you seen may dad?", which got him another telling off for being cheeky. Stupid teacher.