hello,
from experience, does having a first class honours always get you onto a phd rather than a 2.1?

also, how "high" a first is needed to stand a good chance of getting onto a phd at cambridge eg 80%?

cheers

Well a first will put you at an advantage, but I wouldn't say that it guarantees you a PhD position. Lab experience counts for a lot as well....and I know quite a few people who have gone to cambridge and oxford with a 2i who have had a year's experience working in a lab.

From over a decades worth of experience in biomedical research, I can say that I've yet to meet a PhD student with a first who was any better than one with a 2:1. Sure, it might get you in to more prestigious institutes, but the skills required to obtain a 1st class degree are not necessarily ones that will guarantee success at PhD level.

To Rob: I guess you are a bitter upper class 2nd yourself ?

References are most important and so is your interview.
You need to demonstrate the right commitment and personality too.
I wouldn't say getting into cambridge is not any harder than anywhere else.(Getting funding might be more competitive though)

I would say bitter 2.1 make better students as they are still trying to prove something. Also, your undergraduate dissertation mark should be as important as your overall grade.

I couldn't get a studentship interview as a 3rd year undergraduate. As soon as my first class was on the CV, interview invites have come thick and fast. I surmise that a 2.1 would have had just as much impact though. \cheers Andy xx

To Steve:
Not remotely, mate! Apologies if the tone of my e-mail suggested that. I was merely commenting on the fact that I haven't seen a tangible difference in the quality of performance from 2:1'ers and 1st students during PhD's. Perhaps you have??

Well, some universties are specifically after a 1st class, but what's more important is lab experience. A 1st will usually be taken over a 2:1 candidate, but if the 2:1 candidate has more lab experience, they have a much better chance. Not everyone with a 1st has what it takes to do a PhD, Postgraduate work is a very different world to undergrad

Does a first class degree guarantee a phd?...........No - there is more to it than that - being in the right place at the right time - a good proposal - good experience etc - fiting with research profiles - good interview skills (I could go on and on).. keep trying you will get one in the end if you really want one.

I'd agree with the others, while a 1st looks good on paper and you have more of a chance to get into the prestigious unis. There's not much difference at the end of the day! Doing a PhD is a personal thing so it depends on your attitude, determination to succeed and willingness to do the hard work! Someone with a 2nd class degree could just do just as well as someone with a 1st, if not better as they feel they have something to prove or if they were just more committed!

Grades do not matter at this point as a PhD is about doing your own research. Where they might matter is what choices you get as the selection system here is very biased towards those with highest grades. This is unfortunate as those without the top grades may find it harder to get funded places which are very competitive! This doesn't mean they are less able to do the work. What is important is that they are a good supportive dept that will look out for you and your research.

I also agree with camper - there is a certain element of luck involved! So you should do what you can to help it along! Otherwise keep your fingers crossed! An important point to note while you may set your heart on a particular place and project which is great if it happens but something even better maybe around the corner and your won't know until it suddenly hits you out of the blue! So you never know! ;)