Hi

Was wondering if anyone out there can advise on what it's like doing an EdD / professional doctorate in education (UK)? Or chances of getting PhD funding in education.

Currently doing a part-time MSc in Multimedia and e-Learning, based around my full-time work as an English teacher in a sixth-form college. Started off doing it just to increase my employability. But as the course has progressed, I've really enjoyed it. My grade average is over 70% with just the dissertation module to go, which is better than I'd even dared hope for. So I'm starting to seriously consider going to the next stage, maybe having a tilt at a full blown academic career - although reading these forums is a bit scary on that front! But anyway...basically I have a number of options if I want to continue on to further study:

1. Do a Doctorate in Education part-time at any one of my local-ish unis. The downside to this is it's a five year non-stop commitment - which is a long time.

2. Look for PhD funding - But I'm aware that competition is keen, and there are people with better academic track records out there than me. The other significant downside would be living on a stipend - I'd manage, but it would be about half my current salary and I've got a mortgage. For the same reason I'd be restricted to looking locally, which limits things even further. Would seem foolish too to leave a job I basically like very much (most of the time).

3. A third possibility is to look at doing a short course (60 Masters credits) in educational research methods part-time. This would maybe increase my chances of PhD funding, but would also mean I could do the EdD at the OU, which is only three and a half years. Just seems more manageable than five!

Does anyone have any advice / experience of the route I'm taking?

Hi fallenonion,

I have a friend who did an EdD. My sense from what she said was that this was the route to go if you wanted to stay in the school / college sector, but perhaps looking at moving into management. Hers had quite a lot of fairly applied coursework, and then a fairly short thesis (more MPhil length), that she was able to tie into her teaching practice. It seems well-recognised and respected as a professional qualification and she thinks led fairly directly to her getting a much better and more senior job in a very nice independent school. What she said at the time was, that she thought it wouldn't have been great preparation for a traditional academic career, because she felt she had a less solid theoretical and methodological basis than those doing the PhD. That might have been her particular course though.
One thing to think about is about what's happening to education departments in universities. As Gove moves ITT away from universities, from what I've seen there's been quite a lot of job losses, and I don't know how sustainable some of them will be (obviously the next minister might change everything back, who knows). You might want to have a talk with your MSc dissertation supervisor about what they think would be strategically more sensible.

Thank you so much for your reply.

Encouraging that your friend found it was respected professionally. So it wouldn't be wasted if I couldn't get into HE. That's a very good point, about ITT jobs being at risk though. It's impossible to know which way it's going to go. Maybe I've just got to hedge my bets, go ahead and do it then see about using the skills / experience in a different way if it's a non starter.

I did speak with one of my tutors and he was optimistic that once I've completed my MSc I'd be in a good position to look for teacher trainer positions. He suggested maybe switching to an FE college that delivers HE, get some experience, then look for a uni post. In fact he took the same route, taught sixth form, did the exact same Masters' as I'm doing, ended up teaching it and then did an EdD part-time. However - the big 'but...' - he made that leap ten+ years ago, I have a feeling it isn't so easy now. He also said that you 'can do everything with an EdD that you can with a PhD'. But other things I have read contradict that, including your friend's experience. Like you say, maybe there's variation between courses and that's something I'll have to look at more closely.

On the positive side though, I'm quite open minded about what the future holds. In some ways I'd be happy to stay in college teaching and use that context to conduct classroom based research. Then at least I'd be ready if the ITT situation did improve again. I'm also prepared to look at other roles within HE, like learning technologist jobs or course designer jobs. Seems like a lot of people get doctorates that don't necessarily translate to academic jobs in the traditional sense, I think I'd still have an itch to do it even if no guarantees.

Food for thought anyway. Thanks!

I don't know anything about the EdD, but bewildered has given excellent advice: I know that the tutors who delivered my ITT lost their jobs along with many others at the end of the last academic year. Most didn't have doctorates anyway; they had many, many years of varied experience as teachers. But who knows what the future holds? Education is a political football. Keep your mind and your options open.

I would say though that any route that allows you to keep your job (because you say you like it) seems the most sensible (not that I'm necessarily an advocate of choosing sensibly). Aren't FE positions in short supply?

Thank you for your input also, bleebies.

Defo keeping my options also. Whole FE / sixth form sector is indeed a bit dodgy at the moment. That's the main reason I started retraining in the first place, because there's been so many cuts there's a permanent cloud over jobs where I work currently. Two people made redundant in my department alone this year. Guess that the whole picture isn't good really. Oh well, gotta keep plugging away at it.

Hi OP,

I tossed around this question for a long time both at the beginning of my doctorate and then later last year when I went through this long and horrible period of doubt and quiet despair.

But really I don't think it matters that much in the long run-both are doctorates and both are difficult and have their challenges along the way. I also think, in the long run, you need to be focusing on the study itself and the journey, not so much the vehicle that gets you there.

Who really knows what opportunities will await you once you have completed this. But I would say that holding on to your employment at this particular point in time is probably quite a sensible strategy. Yes, if you do your doctorate part-time, it means a lot of work and a protracted period of study but many people take this route and most of them don't regret it at the end.

I am inclined to agree that the EdD tends to lead towards 'teacher educator & senior administrator style' roles and the PhD leads towards 'research and academic style roles' but these would be general trends and no doubt, there are many people who have one and have moved towards the other and vice versa.

Having said this, I went the (part time) PhD role-have full time employment as an administrator and teacher and am about half way through my part-time PhD. I really would be incredibly surprised if I landed an academic job at the end of this doctorate, not due to my ability but because mainly because of:
fewer opportunities in this sector
my own age at graduation and:
my employment background as a teacher (fewer papers presented and articles published than other applicants competing for these positions.

I do believe though I will continue as an administrator for many years to come. So do I regret doing a PhD rather than an EdD? (given that the EdD would have been just a bit less work and far more applied and diverse-and still led to the same place-a role as administrator in schools and systems rather than universities).

Well I have done, but for the most part nowadays, I just enjoy having this big project to follow in my spare time and seeing where the data leads me. So finally, getting immersed in the project and the process is important and when and where one arrives...well both options will lead to further opportunities than before. Good luck with your decisions :)

There would be more chance of getting peer reviewed papers from a PhD than an EdD. HE institutions are looking for appointments that are REFable for 2020. Although you would qualify as an early career researcher, it is unlikely that you would get a significant number of papers out of it which may leave you in limbo after the two papers were complete. As an employer, I would possibly have concerns about the level of methodological training an EdD would give in comparison to a PhD, but I can see its purpose in ITE. Ultimately the research question you are asking should answer which route to choose. I would recommend the PhD part-time as the process would give you a better grounding in research. It is not something to undertake just to get the qualification as soon as possible.

Wow, more to consider. I can see both points of view here, Piju and Niseach. Thanks to both of you for your very considered and informed replies.

On the one hand there's the fact they're both doctorates and it's doing the research that matters, as Piju says. But then Niseach, your point ties in with what I'd kind of feared, that a PhD would provide better research training which equals greater employability.

The common ground in both though is that ultimately the research will dictate / decide it, and I therefore probably need to get a clearer focus on exactly what my focus will be beyond literature / multimedia. I need to look more closely at the whole peer review thing too, start getting my head around it as it's evident that's the real make or break.

Still lots to mull over, I think. To say nothing of doing my dissertation to a good standard. Who knows, that might either put me off completely or give me a sharper focus.

Thanks again to everyone. I've got a meeting with my course leader in a few weeks, will try and have a discussion with her then. And by happy chance I'm involved with a work-related research project with a really respected academic, think I'll try and bend his ear too, if I get the chance.

I think I am coming to this debate a little late as it sounds like your moving to a decision. Not sure of your field, but mine is vocational and mainly taught in post-1992 universities. I did my PhD via part-time study taking five years and fitting it around work, it is achievable so don't give up the job!

I share any office with a colleague who holds a EdD, and I am supervising an EdD candidate who specialises in my area. To be honest I don't see much difference in rigour, it is more the nature of the claims to a contribution which differentiate the two, with the EdD you will contribute to practice more than theory. Publications wise it makes no difference, especially give the impact dimension of REF now making practice focused research more important. Benefits wise year 1 & 2 of the EdD are taught (which helps!) as it gives you a good grounding in philosophy and methodology (IMO from what I have seen) you will still have a thesis to write and you still have an equally challenging viva. So choosing between the two is really about you, which you would prefer (more or less structure?) and ultimately what your researching. Indeed when I did my PhD my supervisor had a student who transferred from EdD to PhD - same topic etc without an issue so don't feel restricted either.
If you want any more advice get in touch.

Great, thanks Tester. You're not too late at all, I'm very much still following this and trying to suss out my best option. And everything in your post is very encouraging. It is ultimately a more a vocational route I'm going down, I think. I've enjoyed the dynamism of practice-based research a lot more than I enjoyed the more abstract thought of my undergraduate degree, and I think that could be a deciding factor. Of the two, a more structured route certainly has it's appeals, although maybe that's just being overly-cautious on my part. Certainly heartening to hear that that's another person who's managed to balance work with a PhD. Just knowing it's do-able and not some distant dream is brilliant.

Cheers.

What about a professional doctorate (DBA) which is designed for people working full-time.? With a bit of effort you can complete in 3 years, 4 if you take your time. Your focus could still be on education.

Hi Jellybean. Yes, that sounds much like some of the EdD programme's I've been looking at. It's basically the same thing.

Just a quick update. Well, did it, finished the masters and got my distinction. Still in two minds. Supervisor reckons a phd is best route for me if wanting a research career, rather than the edd. So taking a break to do some playwriting - just a hobby - then gonna see. bah...