Hello. I'm new to this forum, but I'm looking for some real advice.

I finished my phd a good few months back (coming up to 9 months now). It wasn't the nicest experience I've had, and basically I came out the other side of the phd with zero support from my then supervisor. I've been applying to plenty of jobs in the last 9 months, I've had some interviews but can never seem to get past the interview stage. I realise that finding a job in today's economic climate isn't easy, so I've been trying to keep an open and positive mind. But my last interview feedback has got me feeling a little suspicious of my circumstances. One feedback from an interviewer (who knows my ex-supervisor) explicitly told me over the phone that I didn't get the job because of my ex-supervisor. They also said that they didn't want to put this in writing hence the phone call feedback.

Now I don't know what to make of this. My ex-supervisor is not the nicest person in the world, but could she be giving a bad reference and could a poor reference be enough to prevent me landing a job? I'm kind of stuck otherwise on the referee front, considering most job applications I've seen require your phd supervisor to be a referee.

I'm either going crazy with not being able to land a job, or this is something that I should be worried about. And if it's the latter, how do I tackle this?! Now I'm beginning to wonder if poor references have been the reason for most post interview rejections in the last 9 months. I don't know where to turn with this issue, considering everyone I've had contact with in the last 3 years know my ex-supervisor, and will inform her of everything. :/

Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you!

Dear PhD Default
I can really feel how helpless you might be feeling about the whole situation. I had a Scottish friend who was in the same boat as you are. She also eventually came to know that it wasn’t any lapse in her qualification that she wasn’t getting the job but her ex-supervisor. She immediately got the first job that she applied for one she changed her referees. She asked her external supervisor and a senior PhD friend who graduate from her department in the same field and who knew her work very well. May be you should try that if you feel like it

Best wish and don’t worry, your time will come soon!

That is odd! Most jobs don't ask for the references until you'd been offered the post, but perhaps it's different in academia? That or they really don't like your ex-supervisor and don't want to work with anyone who knows them? Did you ask the person on the phone what they meant when they said 'because of your ex-supervisor?' did they mention references at all?

This. Iman offers some sound advice.

Ian

Thanks Iman. I would like to try this. But what of the job applications that require your phd supervisor to be one of the referees?

Yep. Weird right?! I did ask them, but all they said was that they loved the interview and everything, but I didn't get offered the post because of my supervisor, and that maybe I should consider working with someone else for a year to help myself along. One of my other referees that I'm on very good terms with asked me about the post telling me I got a shining reference from her, and she was surprised to hear I didn't get the job... So why did they not take her reference instead of the horrible one? I'm thinking it's maybe because she wasn't my main supervisor? (I ended up with only one supervisor when I should've had two because my advisor decided he didn't want anything to do with me).

Then in that case, I think you should check with the potential employers first that what is it that they are actually looking for in the reference letter and if that can be provided by your other referees? Then just fill in the whole thing and write on the cover page that how your other referees are also appropriate to fulfill the employer query/things s/he is looking for about your skills, expertise etcetra. If you are afraid that there is a danger that your application would be rejected right away by doing this then in that scenario if I were you, I would have told them honestly that I am more at ease with the other referees that I am proposing and if that can kindly be accepted. Be as honest as possible so that in future you don’t feel any pressures; because what I can see is already the ex-supervisor is nasty, he is not going to change and you can’t change him in your favor. So take a fresh start from the very beginning, and you’ll be there!!!

This is my personal advice to you but I am sure that others might have more experiential solutions to this?

Best of luck and keep trying, and keep us informed!!!

Thanks again Iman. I'll definitely try this. And shall keep you informed :). Fingers crossed!

I would be hesitant to draw attention to the fact you're not using your main supervisor, unless asked. It may distract from the quality of your application and raise suspicion.

Do all the jobs you're applying for specify that your main supervisor should be a referee? I would start looking out for posts that don't, even if it means doing something less than ideal for a short period. You can use your second supervisor plus someone else at this point, and then your new boss thereafter.

Thanks, kelpie. The postdocs I have been looking at have specifically asked for my main supervisor as a first referee, and then any other two I know. Even for non-academic jobs I've been putting my ex-supervisor as a first referee (even though they didn't ask for it) because I hadn't realised that my ex-supervisor was giving bad references until it was explicitly pointed out by my last interview feedback. I'd just been told that it's really difficult to land a job in this day and age anyway by people around me.

Hmm, maybe not highlighting that my referees don't include my main supervisor would be a good idea. I think what you've mentioned is what my interviewer was pointing at too tbh. Get away from my ex-supervisor for a year so that I don't have to use her anymore.

Awful thing I found out today, she is including my work to present at a conference as a main speaker... :( ...found out in passing, she didn't even bother to tell me :( I need out!

It's just that I think if I was in a position of hiring postdocs and I saw on a cover letter or elsewhere that an applicant had issues with their supervisor, unfortunately it would set alarm bells ringing that they might not be easy to work with. Unfair, I know. It's a difficult position to be in but at least now you're aware of what's happening and can change strategy.

I don't know the details of your situation and certainly wouldn't advocate lying to potential employers or doing anything that makes you uncomfortable, but if this person didn't provide any support and was your main supervisor in name only, I would question whether you need to include her as a referee if someone else was actually fulfilling that role. It really depends on your circumstances.

Could you 'sound her out'. Email or speak in person with something like 'I see you're including my work in conference x? I'm very flattered that you found it useful enough to include. As my work is fresh in your mind could I ask your advice? I am applying for positions but don't seem to be getting anywhere. I have you as a reference so wanted to ask your opinion on what I could do to improve my chances?'. Let's them know you're aware of the conference and that they should be supporting your applications. Might make them think twice on badmouthing or even make them 'out themselves as to what they've been saying in their reference? Good luck.

I completely understand what you're saying kelpie, I'd probably be the same if I saw that on a cover letter too. As of yet I've been very positive. It has to be done, where you spin it as being lucky enough to have had a supervisor who "allowed you" to be an independent researcher etc etc and how great it was...whereas in reality she was useless. When I was on the verge of finishing, I'd considered one of my thesis examiners, but she managed to be dazzled by a promise of a professorship into delaying my graduation and is now working with my ex supervisor :/. Anyone else I approach backs off when I tell them who my supervisor used to be (scared of her maybe, I don't know?)...so I guess I'm kind of stuck here.

Exactly wowzers. Maybe it'd be easier if I confronted her about the bad reference/presentation. And if I stop using her as a referee and it all hits the fan (she can be pretty aggressive and has no issues humiliating people), I've got nothing to lose right now. So, no harm no foul? 9 months is a very long time.

Right now I'll take any job, it's just so bloody hard!