Hey guys I was just wondering if anyone had any advice or uplifting stories in relation to failing a PhD? I failed my viva on Friday, while disappointing it wasn't exactly surprising what so ever. My PhD (Life sciences) was a absolute disaster with failure in pretty much every department involved with the project (supervisor, University, Collaborators and of course myself), my project was flawed from the start, I had no budget and all my data was negative. I went into the viva already failed due to lack of data so I didn't really have any chance of passing.

So obviously I want to really put this mess behind me and move on. I have no complaints in terms of the viva (my external was absolutely right, I had no data) nor wish to put the blame on my supervisor (he did his best with poor collaborators and no money) so I don't want to go through the appeal process etc, I just want to leave and start a fresh.

I guess the question is, "Is my career in Science dead?" Just to add a few things, my University is well known for unsuccessful PhD's (former poly with no post-docs, lab techs and underfunded), I was actually quite well respected within the University so I was given extra responsibilities during my PhD (I have over 100 hours of undergraduate lecturing including running a entire undergrad module, supervised 4 successful MRes lab projects and ran undergraduate practicals) and I'll be able to get good references (I never fell out with any of my supervisors and they were very apologetic when I came out of my viva, accepting quite a lot of the blame).

I guess my plan now is to maybe apply for a lowly lab tech job in a 'proper' University and take it from there, do you guys think I'm just kidding myself and should pack in the science game and go work in a bank or that I have a good chance of starting a fresh?

Sorry to hear that. If you can get funded for a second PhD then the game isn't over, but I would imagine it would be hard to become an academic researcher. If you want to go into industry then I would suggest applying for jobs instead of starting a new PhD - a lot of companies have good in-house training schemes. Best of luck.

I just want to wish you all the very best. I very much admire your attitude and doubt I'd be feeling the same way (puts head down in shame). Given the experiences you gained at university, would they not be able to supply you with some casual or temporary work? Always worth asking. If you see lab tech jobs advertised, apply and see what happens. Do whatever you need to do to pay the bills but continue to strive towards what you want.

I really hope things work out for you and hopefully your attitude will see you through.

Thanks guys for your responses and especially Delta for your kind words. Firstly I know it's going to be tough and I won't be able to just "do another PhD" straight away hence why I think my best bet is to start off just doing a lowly tech job and if they like me then maybe something will come my way, maybe I just wasn't good enough to do a PhD but the general feel amongst my supervisors etc seems to be more that while not a great student, I didn't really have much chance with the negative data. Secondly I don't really have any ambition to be a academic researcher, what I really enjoy is helping undergraduates and lecturing. The University actually seemed keen on keeping me on as a lecturer as they thought I had a natural aptitude for it and fortunately I managed to impress a few of the higher ups with my lecturing endeavour I'm also currently running a module at the moment till May so I'm not sure if I'm going to keep that job (Not sure they could find anyone to replace me mind!).

Part of me has to laugh about a University where a PhD student gave lectures and ran a undergraduate module to a high standard but had no chance of passing their actual PhD, kinda shows where the priorities lay although as I said I'm not bitter about it and the other acedemic members of staff really tried their best.

If it helps, I know of some people without a PhD who have lecturing posts (these people are young). It does sound as though your university are impressed with you and so continue doing what you're doing and maintain the lines of communication. Personally, I don't feel a PhD is the be all and end all and I've always maintained (although I passed) that it was a poor learning experience. I learned so much more about research from my research assistant posts and my MSc was a fantastic learning opportunity. I don't place great value by my PhD to be honest and I've said this time and again on the forum.

Best of luck(up)

Hi,
I am sorry that I am not in a position to give you any constructive advice about what to do next, but I wanted to say that your attitude is both commendable and admirable. Also, it must have been very difficult for you to write up your thesis knowing that the data was negative, so kudos for writing up in spite of that.
I am a social sciences candidate so although I am not familiar with the pure sciences field, I would hazard a guess that fellow scientists would be quite sympathetic or empathetic of the fact that experiments do go wrong and that in that sense the outcome of science PhD's are very much at the mercy of producing positive/negative results. What I mean is, if it were social sciences, a failed PhD would reflect more upon the ability of the student rather than the problems of experiments which our out of your control.
Anyway, I hope you stay positive and find a happy outcome :-)

I don't necessarily agree with you. Failing a PhD can be attributed to many things and you could have a fantastic student but a poor supervisor or poor supervision (a PhD should be a learning experience and learning from, in part, your supervisor) could result in failing. I couldn't honestly give credit to my supervisors for their help and feel I could have done better with a project designed by me and conducted without their supervison. Sadly, I have to be seen to give them credit in my acknowledgements but I don't have to mean it.

Negative data itself won't cause a PhD to fail. Negative results are entirely valid and defensible, but to make them work as a thesis there has to be a logical and coherent story underlying the findings. This makes me wonder if you've received bad advice/guidance in the writing up stage. Perhaps there are good grounds for appeal? At the least I'm sure you could get an MPhil out of it.

It sounds to me like you've been poorly managed. If the 100 hours you quote are contact time, I imagine you put in a considerable amount more than that in preparation time too. It seems that the university have prioritised their need for teaching staff over your need to do your PhD to an extent that has been to your detriment. I hope that future opportunities that come your way take this into account, and that your considerable teaching experience is recognised as an asset. Is that something you enjoyed and would like to take further? Or would you like to focus more on research?

Good luck for whatever you decide.

======= Date Modified 30 Jan 2012 12:49:12 =======
Thanks Hazyjane for your constructive comment. In relation to appealing etc, the basic jist of why my PhD went wrong was that the initial lines of scientific enquiry led to a dead end so my supervisor had to think of other things to investigate that were cost effective (the majority of the budget went on plan A) but didn't generate very much novel data. My collaborators were only interested in 'plan A' so they more or less jumped ship after a year when we switched to plan B (Rather comically they couldn't get plan 'A' to generate anything at their institute either). I think my supervisor tried his best to turn it around for me and he was excellent during the writing stage, together we basically came up with a way of writing the thesis that hopefully hid the fact that the content was slim picking as best as possible which obviously wasn't good enough.

In regards to your question, yes it was contact time. I more or less ran a entire module in my final year for 100 undergraduates and seemed to do quite well. That included delivering all the lectures, marking all the assessments and helping the students as much as I could. I absolutely loved teaching and helping undergraduates, so this is what I'd like to do in the long term but obviously I'm stumped without a PhD. From looking at my viva report the citation for why not to award a PhD was "Not enough novel data" which was something that I couldn't do anything about. At the end of the day the proof is in the pudding as they say and 'no data' is 'no data', the only aspect that upsets me is why the University put me through a 4 hour viva and made me spend 6 months writing up while doing loads of teaching just to get told that I'd failed before I even put pen to paper!

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======= Date Modified 30 Jan 2012 13:55:29 =======
Thanks for clarifying. It really does sound like a frustrating situation.

It would be difficult to progress in a lecturer career path without a PhD. I wonder whether there are any side-steps that might interest you. Many of the professional bodies have education/public engagement programmes that need people with scientific expertise and excellent communication skills. Perhaps that's something you might like to consider?

See for example:
http://www.britishscienceassociation.org/web/
http://imascientist.org.uk/
http://royalsociety.org/training/communication-media/

Edited to add - I'm not saying you should ditch research if you think you would enjoy carrying on in it. But it would be a shame to get a lab tech job or do another PhD to facilitate the path to lecturer if in fact there are other opportunities that might correspond with the kind of work you enjoy.

======= Date Modified 30 Jan 2012 15:56:53 =======
As said by others, there are people who manage a career in lecturing without a PhD. I know of one at Sunderland (my undergrad Uni.), who is also well respected as an industrial consultant. However, I would try to pick up a teaching qualification then probably start out at Tertiary / Sixth Form College level first. Alternatively, in trying to gain employment in industry you could say (as one of my line managers during my first post-doc did) advertise your Uni. period as working on a given project rather than a failed PhD spinning a few positives such as analytical and people skills (i.e. the teaching) where possible from it.

Your Uni. (one of five names comes straight to mind - Saford, Liverpool John Moore, Bedforshire, Derby, Manchester Metropolitan) seems to have used you as a cheap lecturing option during your last few months and I think that's disgusting to be honest. The other institute needs a wrap across the knuckles for the way they've handled the situation and when funding disappeared, it would have been kinder after that first year to allow you to pull out and give you a chance to pick up another PhD studentship elsewhere.

The situation you describe deserves a complaint at the least (it's clear from what you say an appeal won't succeed), making sure you don't attach blame to your supervisors (a potential job referee). However, I understand you just wanting you to leave the whole mess behind you.

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

That was something I meant to say as well. I love your honesty and while it is a quality that should be valued by employers and very much is, they only tend to appreciate it after interview. Sadly, honesty, however well meaning (and I say this from experience) may not always secure a job. Just check Google to make sure your PhD can't be traced and do as suggested by Mac.

It was the examiners who put you through a 4 hour viva and if they had absolutely no intention of passing you then that's shameful. I hate the viva process - I think it sucks.

Hi Uncutlateralus

I'm so sorry to hear you did fail your viva as I remember your posts from before when you said you were very worried that it was going to happen. Your attitude, as the others have said, is really refreshing, humbling and admirable.

I'm in a different field but from what I know I would say that you will very likely pick up work here and there but may find it difficult to find that secure, pensionable full time job - probably to get that, you will need a PhD. Forgive me if you have already answered this, but are you hoping to get it sorted as an MPhil? That would make you stronger I imagine in the jobs department.

The best of luck with the future, and again sincerest comisserations on not getting through the viva - it sounds a pretty awful experience.

======= Date Modified 31 Jan 2012 09:03:51 =======

If he's failed outright without even an MPhil, there shouldn't be anything to trace as no viable document will have resulted. The Uni. will take the name off the current candidate list and any feasible trace on their website should disappear fairly quickly. A document will only result and appear on the Open Repository for an MPhil or PhD (latter will also obviously appear as a record on Ethos or other national equivalent).

I say 'should', as my PhD University still lists a failed / withdrawn candidate from a few years back as a current student. He comes into the place where I work as a third party inspector, doing his best to avoid me with me knowing about his past. He's clearly embarrased I know whilst as far as I'm concerned, it just doesn't matter.

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)