Sorry for a negative post, and I'm not sure anyone can help, I just need to write this down to work out where I'm at.

My supervisor has asked me to write up all 3 studies for publication. Fine, I've written up 2 and was going to start my 3rd. Problem is, they NEVER get finished, they stay on her desk in the final stages of proofing and never get sent anywhere. But she says having an idea of the story by putting these papers together will make writing the thesis better - ok, so I write the publications.

She has said that I am not to turn any of these publications into thesis chapters. But surely a thesis chapter needs more detail in it than a publication!?

Anyway, so I'm at the stage where she won't let me work on the thesis, just on publications. I have just finished a 'publication' and said to her I'm going to spend some time working it into a thesis chapter, while its fresh in my head. and she's told me a definite no on that "get on with the other publciation"

Yet she continually says "how's the thesis going" - erm its not!? and she expects me to complete the write up by october!??

I don't have any chapters finished at all, she's even told me not to bother with my methods chapter or an introduction yet, I've just these 'publications' that aren't published. I have no guidance on how to structure anything in the thesis e.g. what to put in each chapter, I have no idea whether the literature from the publications will be left in the chapters or put in a lit review. But every time I ask one of these questions, I just get told "no, focus on getting the publciations out".

I'm so confused, I feel like I can't progress with it at all and everything I do do just gets left by the wayside.

Not helped by the fact she's not contactable until late september now

:-(

Hi Sneaks,

I don't think my post will be much help but just to let you know I share your sense of frustration. :-(

If you feel you can make time and can progress with writing aspects of your thesis you should do so. You don't need to run everything you do past your supervisor and what she doesn't know will do her no harm!

You have my support!

How frustrating! I feel your pain... My advice, especially since she's not contactable till late september, is to just get on with your thesis. At a pinch, you can always use the work you've done in your thesis towards a publication, I think that way around is more logical personally... Good luck!

I agree - take the lead and just get on with what you think is best. Your supervisor doesn't always know best!

Hey Sneaks! I'm doing my PhD by publication and have 3 papers completed to date which are published/under review and am working on my 4th (two lit reviews and a methodology/conceptual paper, which will form the first 3 chapters of my thesis, and my first results paper). Even though I don't have all of my results yet I have been asking my sup how it would work. She basically said that the papers could just go in as they were published/submitted, although I could put more detail in if I needed to. But apparently some people just hand their thesis in literally with an intro, a discussion, and 3 or 4 published papers in the middle just as they are. I had the whole 'which way round' conversation with her and we kind of agreed that since we are aiming to publish all of the results and I enjoy writing papers then it makes more sense to write them as papers and then turn them into chapters by adding more info as required, than writing them as chapters and finishing the PhD with no publications etc and having to do it later to be in with a chance of a post-doc. But then my sup is very quick at marking things and getting them back to me- if it is unlikely that the papers will ever be sent away then it seems a little pointless writing them as papers! I suppose just getting stuff written down is a good thing, whichever way round you do it, so as long as you are making progress in that direction then perhaps try not to get too stressed about which way round to do it. Either way, you are on your own for a while now so work the way you prefer! Best, KB

Hey Sneaks, what a crappy situation, poor u :-(

I'd agree with the others, if you are planning to submit your papers as is, with a thesis by publication, then you need to get the first 2 submitted to a journal asap and you can write the 3rd publication like your sup wants. However, if you think they'll never be submitted in time to go in your thesis as direct papers instead of chapters, then forget about the 3rd publication, and get started on your chapters. The most important thing is getting your thesis finished, you can always modify your chapters into publications when you are finished. Especially as your sup is now uncontactable until late September, you're submitting in October, what is that?! There is no way she should be uncontactable for that length of time to a pre-submission student! I'd say go with your gut instinct, it's about how you feel by this stage, it's your thesis don't forget.

Thanks all.

When I say she's uncontactable (is that a word?) she's unavailable for a meeting. She is on phone and she expects me to send her work every few days. Problem is, that when, as I have done this week, phone her in a panic about something, then she just tells me to get on with the publication - no discussion.

So my quandry is, do I get on with turning my most recent 'publication' into a chapter and then feel her wrath when she doesn't get work in a few days from me??

If she said "yes we are doing a PhD by publication" then I think I'd be happy, but none of her supervisees have ever done one like that, and I get the feeling she is uncomfortable to let me do it like that too.

I'm going to sit down today and try and plan out the thesis - well all the bits I think I can do anyway. and see what can be done in each area.

I think this may involve working on publicatoins by day and thesis by night.

I also worry that while she has said for 3 years "you're writing is fantastic" - when I send her the 'publications' they come back completely changed - i.e re-written. I may as well have sent her bullet points and my reference library. So I'm also worried that maybe I'm not great at writing - but having no tips on how to change, just having it changed for me :-s

Sneaks, this is madness - what on earth is the woman thinking?

I'm guessing that a PhD by publication is probably out, seeing as your supervisor isn't in favour and more to the point - has prevented you from actually having any publications! If you want to submit in a few months and haven't even sent paper one to a journal I don't see that it can happen. I'm not trying to make you feel worse here, just want you to know that you're not mad, this really doesn't make sense.

I wrote up a few papers during my research and yes, regardless of publication status having them done has made writing chapters easier - I just adapt and add detail. But a word of caution, for me at least, this adaptation took much longer than expected. Due to the constraints of journals and the mind-numbing time-eating nature of appendices, etc, thesis chapters really aren't the same animal as papers.

Would she have a total fit if you said something like "I don't disagree with you but I can't financially afford to submit long after my funding ends, so from here on I will have to focus on my thesis. I'll be very happy to return to looking at publications once that's done." Trying to write your third paper while 1 and 2 haven't even been submitted, and as your thesis deadline looms just doesn't make sense for you (regardless of how beneficial it may be for her), I say put yourself first and make the thesis priority number one.

Thanks Teek. I don't even want to go into her plans for me after my funding has finished, There is a few £k left which isn't technically mine, but she said I can have it to fund me to write proposals - but not until I've submitted. I think she thinks this is motivation, whereas I'm just feeling super stressed, with no job to walk into and money coming out of my account every day :-(

I've decided to spend some time and get the publication that I finished this week into some kind of thesis format while its still fresh in my head. I reckon I've got the rest of the week to duck her and then she'll expect something new by next week.

It would just be great to get SOMETHING completed - as so far I have thousands of words in different sections, none of which are complete - some just stop mid sentence.

hi Sneaks
I haven't gone as far as you have, I hope you're ok :-)
I've just come back from a long holiday and now I'm down with a fever.
I think its the stress from travel; strange, holidays are supposed to let us relax but we end up getting more stressed thinking about insurance, is the house locked, is the water leaking, long flight hauls etc.
:-)
love satchi

oh no Satchi! Hope you're feeling better - hopefully some Vitamin D from the sun will help.

I've decided to annotate the publications I've completed with notes for the thesis - I made sure I kept all the longer versions too before Sup edited them down, so I have longer ones to play around with.

I think I'm going to do the annotating this morning adn then get on with the third study. Only now do I realise that she won't let me progress until that is done. I reckon with a week of hard work I can write that up, which means I'll finally be able to put the thesis together.

Little Update:

After my sup finally agreeing 2 journals to send my first 2 papers to, I've been working on getting them out.

Then met with an email this morning: "how's your thesis going, we need to talk about potential examiners so you need to finish it ASAP" - WTF I HAVEN'T BEEN WORKING ON IT BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO!

Argh feeling super stressed now. :-(

Sorry to hear that Sneaks :( Sounds like your supe's a bit of a monster at times.

Least you're at the stage of of talking about examiners, and now their focus should definately be on your thesis rather than the papers! I'd cling on to that for the moment.

haha, well I emailed my 'concern' - I think she just has NO idea what she's asked me to do.

She's now asked me to get the last paper finished and then we put togehter the thesis in september - deadline end of sep. That's one month to write a thesis. Nice.