Are students at different points of PhD research treated equally in your labs, or would it be common to find a final year student 'helping out' (maybe even giving daily advice and research guidance to) a first year student? (I'm not talking about postdocs). Has anyone found themselves doing this more than they'd like to? My personal opinion is that the duties of an older PhD student shouldn't go any much further than answering questions like 'where is the...', 'can you explain how this works'

Well, if you need some advice you go and ask the person with the most experience in this type of experiments. This is regardles of their position, if the technician knows most ask her/ him. The postdocs will have more experience, so they will probably be able to help you more. If someone in the next door lab is the best to ask then i go ask.

The trick is to know whom to ask for advice. Some people like to do quick & dirty experiments and some don't know what they are talking about but are very good at convincing you they do. So you learn with time which protocol to trust.

I don't like people who don't like showing you techniques because "they don't want to waste time", because they had to learn it from someone else themself. So I'll give such people the protocols if they ask for them but I won't bend over backwards to help them with it!

I was dumped with a japanese student who came for just 5 weeks- which is not very helpful. By the time she know what she was doing and could be left alone she was off again (and she was a medical student, who would never again work in a lab). It's fun showing people how things work, especially if they get all excited about their first cloning sucess but it does take time. but, as mentioned above- if you want people to show you things you must also be prepared to help others.

Normally one person fiddles around with the conditions untill a technique finally works well - if someone else then needs to utilize this they go ask for advice. Normally a PhD student shouldn't be setting up too many things for the lab because this is risky (if the trouble shooting takes too long). Unless the PhD is all about developing a new technique!

The thing is, there is no postdoc in my lab, so as a PhD student starting my final year I'm really the most senior person there (apart from my supervisor). I'm worried because we have a new student arriving soon and from past experience I know this will mean a lot of hassle for me. In the past I have found myself struggling to find things for the students to do (having to direct their research really), and in the end giving them my work to do so they're not sitting around doing nothing - I know that sounds ridiculous, but it's a bit of a weird situation. There is essentially only one piece of apparatus in our lab, and only one person can use it at a time unless there is a major experiment happening (which isn't very often). Me 'helping out' the student means finding something for them to do which in turn means giving them my experiment. It's really complicated, should I just totally ignore the new student and let someone else sort it out?

Most students going through our lab do not plunge straight into labwork (unless they already have experience in the field). They usually spend the first few weeks reading papers to familarise themselves with their project area. Perhaps you could suggest this to the new student?

Helping a new student will be invaluable experience if you intend to continue in academia.

yeah - that's what I was afraid of. I have found this part of PhD life so unbearable that I have pretty much decided that I DON'T want to stay in academia.

Working as a team is very important in all scientific jobs. It's common for more experienced people in a lab to help new students find their feet and its a useful line on your CV. Your supervisor should be suggesting initial directions for the student to take rather than you giving away your experiments. Could you discuss your concerns with him before the student arrives, then just help the student settle in?
Whatever happens, it's not the new guys fault, so don't totally ignore them.

Yeah it's the not the new guy's fault! That's very true although I suppose if you are absorbed in your work it can be distracting to be constantly interrupted! But just think how of you felt when you first started and how awkward it was! Maybe they just want to make conversation and or maybe they are just interested in the technique/learning stuff! It would be alot easier if the student knew what they were doing but you don't always get those!

In my lab, different research groups share the space. We have a rule between the group leaders: "if anyone needs help, anyone can help. if anyone needs a telling off, anyone can tell [them] off". Thus, postdocs can ask BSc project students for help if it's a technique they're unfamiliar with or 1st yr PhD students can shout at me for pinching their Gilson tips. It works a lot more in the other direction. Everyone is an equal on one footing in our lab: we're all able to ask/give advice.

You'd be amazed what some BSc students know how to do that I don't cuz they've done different degrees.

Do lots of PhD students carry out lab work then? and what does it actually involve?

It's nice to see my message still attracting replies...I absolutely agree that I shouldn't be making the new student suffer, and in reality I would never do this - I'm very good at 'grinning and bearing it'. I can see how I might come across as being a bit nasty BUT this is still a real issue for me.

ANN: I will be trying to get the student to read for as long as possible(!), but this won't take a year :(

TEAM and BOREDPOSTDOC: I know team work is important in science (and lots of other areas), but I really hate it! Any career advice? I always have the biggest sense of achievement / satisfaction / pride when I've done something on my own. Finally, I will try and discuss things with my supervisor. At the minute I'm of the opinion that I can deal with teamwork, sharing, (what feels like losing half of my PhD), but I won't do it voluntarily.

MR D: biologists, chemists, physicists would ideally spend most of their time in the lab, but apparatus breaks down, we have to wait for chemicals to arrive etc so there is time for reading too. I always feel guilty if I'm not doing an experiment in the lab when I could be. Am I right? We only read when we have to? Thanks for all the replies.

The important thing to ask yourself at the moment is:

Will I have enough results for a good thesis and be able to write up before my grant runs out?

You should also be working this out with your supervisor and and other PhD advisers you may have. If you're all set to finish on time, then having to 'grin & bear' helping a new student is a small price to pay. If it doesn't look like you're going to finish on time then it's up to you and your supervisor to come up with a plan that gives you sufficient access to your experimental equipment and places more of the burden on your supervisor for the new student.

If you're worried about your attitude to coaching others affecting your future career it's probably not worth worrying just yet. Your current problems are probably just as much related to the dynamics of your research group as they are to any real problems with helping others out.

I'm starting a PhD in engineering and will spend all of my time reading and using computers. I didn't realise that much lab work went on.

Oh yes I'm in the lab already in my 1st month but I have done this before as a job so it's no big deal to me! I'm glad actually so I have a chance to try to finish on time as I have so much lab work to do it's unreal! It was a weird transition from working to be a student as I had all this "free" time while waiting for equipment to arrive! I'm glad I'm in the lab as it feels like I'm actually doing something and getting results!