I'm about to finish writing my thesis and I've started to look for a job. The problem is despite having good results that will come as two big papers (expecting to attract a lot of attention) plus 2 more good enough papers, I have not finished preparing them. So when I submit my thesis I'll end up having no published paper in hand! I'm worried this disqualifies me to get a good Postdoc position.

Is any one else in the same situation as me? Any advice how I might be able to decrease the effect of not having my papers submitted by the time I apply for a job?

Hi Mathcomp

I'm in a similar (worse?) position. I'm close to submitting (June/July) and have no publications even in the pipeline. I'm concerned about the effect this will have on job prospects too. My supervisors and close Professor friend don't seem worried about it at all though. I plan to get some work where I can and spend as much time as possible focusing on getting some publications under my belt after I submit. All of my peers seem to have a few publications sorted, but I don't. I guess I've just got to deal with it and get stuck in asap.

I'd also be interested in decreasing the effect of lack of publications if anybody has any advice.

Good luck with finishing the thesis and getting those papers prepared :)

I've got one submitted, so I'm putting that on my CV. I think it's helpful obviously, but then again, two postdocs have just been advertised in my dept, and guess what, both went to internal candidates, one of whom has no publications... so yeah, pretty encouraging...

Hi glowworm,

It is the same for me. I see all my office fellows having publications one after another. I feel bad not having managed to publish any. But you know the number of publications one is expected to have depends greatly on the filed and even the subject they work on. We can't really compare. If your supervisor or friends are not worried. Then I guess you shouldn't be either. We just need to stay motivated and keep working.

Good luck with finishing your thesis too and of course with your work toward publishing.

It is good to know. Thanks.

:( I'm sorry to hear this. Unfortunately, a lot of jobs happen in this manner (myself included).

Mathcomp

While various individuals will disagree, in the process of being a new academic applying for jobs, it might be worth also putting papers that are 75%-85% ready to go (where if asked, you could supply a draft of this paper) to help strengthen your CV.

http://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/34901/indicate-journal-name-for-under-review-and-accepted-in-press-publications-on

The link above might be a useful read.

One thing to keep in mind is that disciplines and publication rates will vary. For example, in qualitative social science where your project is your own, you're not likely to have a heap of publications at the end of your PhD; whereas in a hard science field, you might be listed on a number of works as coauthor of some sort and therefore have more.

It can be hard though when you compare yourself to others, I do this all the time and panic about my lack of publications. But I also have to remember that I've only just finished the PhD whereas many of these others that I'm comparing myself to have been in the field for a while now.

That's really useful information, awsoci. thanks for taking the time to reply :)

Thanks for helpful advice. The link was also very helpful.

Well, on the otherside it is rather bad for them. Doing a post doc in the same institute you did your Phd is seldom recomended unless you need the time to get one or two papers published that are already in preparation. Reading in this forum leaves me somehow a bit puzzled and maybe you can clarify some things for me. If it is so hard to just get a post doc position in the UK, imagine how incredibly unlikely it is that you are chosen for a permanent position. So what is the point of a post doc in the end? Is this somehow UK specific? Are there more permanent positions compared to other countries? I studied now in three different european countries and the Post Docs I met always said that it is easy to get a post doc position (if you don't search in a specific european country) but that it is dead end and maybe a few percent of these post docs make it into a permanent position. As the post doc experience is also rather seldom beneficial for a career in indusrty (too old, too long in academia etc.) I wonder why so many people in this forum go for one.

What field are you in Dunham? I think postdoc availability varies wildly with field in the UK. I'm in environmental biology and there are post docs but probably only enough for 1 in 5 PhD students. And the reason people want them is you basically can't get a permanent Academic job without doing at least one (usually 3-4) post doc(s) first, so if you want to stay in Academia, it's probably you're only option. Not all fields are applicable to industry either so you can't really assume people can just get a job that way.

Oh and I'm in the same boat Mathcomp, no papers, none even drafted (all my data came together at the end and writing the PhD is my main aim). Almost everyone else in my research building has at least 1 publication but my supervisors aren't worried about me not having any...I've decided academia isn't for me anyway so I'm also not worrying about it =)

Actually I think it's fairly easy to get a postdoc in the UK - the difficulty comes in progressing from that to getting fellowships and then a permanent academic post. I could get a job in industry but I think I would be bored as it's not actually the bench work I like - I enjoying writing, reviewing, teaching etc. I know it's highly unlikely that I will get an academic job, but I'm still going to try. Someone's got to get them, right? And in order to try I need a postdoc. At the moment I think I can compete with others, but maybe it will get to the point where I am no longer competitive and I will drop out of the race. Time will tell I guess.

Good to know there are a few others in similar position, Caro. :)

Hi Caro,

Why I want to do a postdoc? Very good question to ask myself. Here is why:

1. During my PhD I spent a lot of time to gain some skills that can be applied on more projects and that would be a waste if I don't.

2. I started a PhD to contribute to science and my scientific ambition is not satisfied yet but I've got some good ideas which I don't have enough time to further them during my PhD. But a Postdoc can give me a chance for them.

3. At this stage I feel I fit in academia better: I've never worked in industry, I'm not confident enough in my practical skills yet and I don't want to make a mess or make myself too stressed at the begining of my professional career.

4. If I become a good researcher at academia, I can easily switch to industry but it does not work the other way.

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Nothing's wrong with trying that if you are aware of the risk. For me it was simply hard to understand because you have all these threads were people are fed up with academia and are desparately searching for basically any kind of position to pay the bills. Somehow I am asking myself what these people expected? Nowadays it already seems to be hard to find phd positions (at least if you are not continuing were you already studied). Shouldn't that already be a hint that there is absolutely no need for staff in academia and that you could probably get rid of 50% of the Phd students without running into any lack of applicants? It seems that there is nothing waiting for you instead of short term contracts until you finally reach an age were you have to drop out academia. It is probably also too late for industry then. No company is hiring post docs >35 years expect they have a really impressive publication list that would have allowed them a career in academia in he first place. Nobody is looking for "failed" scientists that obviously want to join the company because there is no other way to go (at least thats what I've been told during internships in companies). I'm asking myself the same as I am also thinking about starting a phd in october but sometimes I just think "what is the point?" There is obviously no need for more scientists. If you advertise a position in a company that is suitable for, let's say a post doc in microbiology, you get around 100 applications. How likely is it that you will be chosen in the end? Without any connections? I guess in academia it is even worse. I find it hard to shut these thoughts out as you have absolutely no certainty for such a long time. How do you guys deal with that? Just not thinking about it?