Hi all,

Finishing PhD imminently, and I may be in the situation whereby I need to chose between HE teaching as an AT (£500 a month), or a full time admin job at a university (£1500 a month). One interview done (went VERY well), and other interview coming up.

I'm lucky that finances aren't a huge issue due to my partner's salary, so I can afford to live on either.

I want to go into academia eventually, and have a PGCTHE/FHEA status with 4 years worth of teaching experience behind me. If offered either of the jobs above, which would you go for in terms of adding to the CV?

Head tells me teaching to get even more experience and publish in my spare time, but heart tells me an extra £1,000 a month would be nice to feel more worthy in the post-PhD year.

HE job would probably be more CV enhancing. IMO an admin job at a university isn't any different from an admin job elsewhere as far as academic credentials go.

If you were offered the HE role and accepted it I would make sure that the contract didn't preclude you from engaging in other employment opportunities.

I think you've really got all the boxes ticked already on the teaching front, so I think you should probably think in terms of two things.
1) Which job realistically is going to allow you to publish most easily? It's your publications that get you onto long and short-lists for academic posts. If you are over-conscientious on the teaching side, it could be the ft job.
2) Will the admin job add / develop useful skills / experiences for the non-academic job market? However good you are, the odds against getting an academic job are high, so if the f/t job makes you more competitive for plan B, then it needs serious consideration.
For what it's worth, I don't think either job would be held for or against you if the rest of your cv stacks up. If you take the p/t teaching though, think about giving yourself a limit for how long you'll do it for. It's horribly easy to get trapped in that sort of job and not move on.

I would say definitely go for the teaching. You will be in a much stronger position if a permanent post becomes available at the university where you're working. You may also find that you get offered more hours during the academic year, and part-time hours will give you time to work on your publications and job applications. Admin staff often work long hours and they have much less flexibility in how they use their time than academics.

Thanks for the replies all.

My plan in the next year is publish, publish, publish.

I have one book chapter already out, two journal articles under review, and some minor publications in press.

However, the only thing missing from my CV now is the Dr (soon!) and publications.

I'm thinking PT, relevant teaching + publications during the next academic year = fighting chance for an academic post next time round.

Strongly disagree with that (if it was serious and the intention wasn't sarcasm) ;)

If you already have 4 years of teaching experience, this is nothing to worry about. Your publication record and NOT teaching experience is getting you a permanent position in the end. I am not from the UK but I don't believe it is that much different to other European countries. More teaching is of course nice to have, but probably does not enhance your chances.

I see it like bewildered.
1. Teaching is a rather "useless" qualification in terms of industry jobs and even though you are not planning to join a company, you are maybe forced to do so in the future. The odds are pretty bad to land a job in academia. There are enough people who focused too much on that and now desperately try to get in a company and out of low paid part-time teaching jobs or even long-term unemployment. Admin job can give you some experience that is actually valuable for a company (and probably for a university too).

2. Might be a personal thing, but I would not want to live on my partners salary and put all the pressure on him/her if there is an easy way to earn 3-times as much money as with the teaching job. I would definitely have a bad conscience if he/she finances me almost completely for a longer period. Even if he/she says that this is no problem....

PS : Not sure what field you are in but how do you publish without doing active research? Do you have so much data from your PhD left or how does it work?

One of the reasons why it is so hard to get a permanent academic job is that when jobs are advertised there is probably at least one lecturer already working in the department on a short term contract who will apply for that permanent post. If that person is doing a good job and fulfils all the criteria in the job description, they stand a better chance of getting the job than someone from outside. I work in a university, I was in that position once (my boss said he would threaten to resign if the panel didn't give the job to me), and I have seen it happen a lot. Also, if you are working as a lecturer you will make better contacts and are more likely to hear about other relevant work than if you are working in an admin department. The longer you are out of academic work, the harder it is to get back in. It's much easier to make the transition the other way into admin work if you decide your chances of getting a full time academic contract are just too low.

Yep, teaching is best at this stage.

Is there any way you could do both? So aprt time admin job and part time teaching? Maybe job share with someone in a similar situation?

Indeed, so surely me working part time is the best way to give myself time to churn some publications out before the next round of jobs comes around?

Sure, I'd like the extra money, but as someone else above said, a PT teaching job is not only a foot in the door of the institution, but a foot in the door of academia itself.

Someone once said to me, "it's easier to get an academic job if you already have one". Not sure how true that is.

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In terms of my field, I'm in musicology. I will have a few articles which I can adapt from my PhD, but I've also got interest from a publisher to adapt it for a monograph too, so I may pursue that.

The PT job would give me more time to be in active research off my own back, pursuing new areas on my days off.

Apparently not in natural sciences, where you need a lab to create some data that you can publish ;) Nice if it works like that in other fields.

You might want to google Patrick Moore, Isaac Newton etc regarding their autodidactic contributions to natural science... also your point is unsound as obviously Mr Doctor managed to get data during his PhD, as already mentioned.

MrDoctor, some more questions to consider when making your decision:

1) Teaching

-Is this teaching only facilitating tutorials, or have you been given the opportunity to undertake unit coordination/development/lecturing?

-Will this teaching situate you in the department, or is this really only 'sessional' work? (i.e. will you effectively be 'invisible')

-How many students will you be responsible for, and what will your marking duties and prep duties look like?

-How many extra hours have you not anticipated?

While teaching might be offered as a 'part-time' role, depending on what you are doing, and the demands of your students, this can easily turn into a full time job. Teaching takes up so much time and energy, and that 'illusion' of part time may only be that. When I was sessional teaching last year, I was unit coordinating a unit of 100 students, and had an additional 60-80 in sociology tutorials. I only taught for two hours on Thursdays and 3 hours on Fridays, but the hours soon added up!

2) Admin

-What kind of admin is this?
-Is this research coordination, research and business development, grant officer, etc?

A number of 'admin' roles are actually professional in nature, but categorised as admin, especially in a university setting. They can give you a strong set of skills that can be usable both in an academic and non-academic setting. I know a number of PhDs who left academia to pursue 'admin' but still collaborate on research projects with others. Going into admin doesn't mean you'll lose your placehold in academia, in fact it can be really beneficial depending on the role.

You will also have a set schedule, and other duties can be fitted around that. Teaching, while attempting a fixed schedule, may not be, and it is very easy to get sucked into teaching.

I don't think you can go wrong with either position, and I disagree that going the admin route will barre you from Academia.

I think both options offer merit and need to be considered quite carefully.

Also, you mentioned that a publisher was interested in your work.

Did they approach you? Make sure they are reputable :) I had a publisher approach me just after my thesis was publish in the library depository but they were a predatory one (Lambert).

Yeah Isaac Newton. Too bad it is not 1600 anymore and too bad not everyone is working in theoretical fields. Of course she managed to get data, otherwise she would have failed her PhD. However, there is still time besides a full-time job and probably not a shitload of data that is left.

Anyway, I will stop this here as you obviously just try to piss me off :)