Hey guys

Sorry about the dumdum question here... I have always used the harvard system and have been made to start to use footnotes. I am just finishing up my first chapter (wooo!) and just don't know how I am to reference a page in my footnote. In the harvard system I would go: Binky boggs (2006: 3) to show it is page 3. in the text as am writing, and then write the full ref later. How do I do this in a footnote where I have the entire book ref in it? does it go at the end? is it Pp. 3 or Cf. 3? I have seen these and don't know what they mean. This honestly sounds totally stupid and I apologise. I have looked online but there isn't anything very clear and my sup won't talk to me about it as it's so mundane and 'obvious'!!

ANY HELP most appreciated. Please don't tell me off for how silly the Q is. am really not all that bright! any internet links as well or owt would be fab.

TIA
J x

I'm sorry, I can't help. I'm a Harvard girl still! But I am very excited! Would love to read Binky boggs (2006)!!!!!!!!!!

I want to be a harvard girl. Am not allowed any more... Goddamn fancy footnotes.

Janey, Footnotes are quite straightforward. At the end of a sentence, number your footnote reference. At the corresponding footnote text at the bottom of the page, write "Smith" (2008) How to write a Phd, p. 15. If the footnote reference has been cited before, elsewhere in the text, write "ibid"; if it follows on from the previous reference, write "op. cit". Google these terms for further details. Do not use footnote references in the middle of a sentence. Include the bibliography at the end of the paper, text, thesis, so that reader can refer to the full text.
Good luck.

Your're a star, thank you for your help.
J x

I believe op cit/ibid should be the other way round. Otherwise that will work fine. I wouldn't bother with 'Cf'.

There are lots of hair-splitting differences in styles, but what's important is to be consistent.

If your supervisor is that fussy, might be worth asking if they prefer you to follow a particular journal's style sheet. You can usually find them on journal/publisher websites. If your sup doesn't care which, just grab one at random (within your discipline, naturally) & follow it - saves the hassle.

or use endnote - does it all automatically...

Hope you don't end up in the same situation as my daughter, who has always used Harvard (so have I)and had two essays back this week, both with footnotes,from the same university one said the essay they marked was the best essay they had read this year, no comment about footnotes. The other said the uni style does not allow footnotes, added the footnote words into the word count of the essay, said it was too long and took off 10% of the marks.

Thanks for your replies guys.

I am basically sort of making it up a bit but being consistent. I know how to reference it's just the fiddly bits. I hope I don't get marked down for it - it's for my transfer viva! Hopefully the arguments in the text (such as they are) will hold more sway than my neglect of footnote ref style... arg.

Nah my sup not fussy. But they do like it to be neat, as do I. Bah, referencing is such a pain!

PS: re: Shani, incredible as this may sound I still don't know how to use endnote or really get what it does! I will get on a course after this pronto... I have set up a webaccount thing but don;t know how to use it properly yet. Been too busy working!

jayney, you say referencing is such a pain. well that's exactly what endnote is about - relieving that pain! i've been using it since version 4, i think for about 8 years now, and i'm still sorry i didn't start using it earlier. i recommend it to anyone who is starting out studying (undergrad or postgrad, doesn't matter).
there are three main things that endnote does.

1. it is a database. that is, your literature all goes in (by hand or automatically, see 2nd) and the program helps you keep track of it all. it's very straight forward: you've got fields for author, for year, for publisher, etc. including fields for your own notes, abstracts, links to the PDF and you can customize, that is, you can invent your own fields - anything that is useful to you. the standard fields vary by publication type, so first of all you say if it is a journal article or book or what, and then you will get slightly different fields. so you have this database - you can run searches through it, easily find all items by the same author or that include the same keyword etc. i find that useful, i keep all my summaries of papers in endnote, and i can always bring up the exact title of that book or look up the year of publication of that article very quickly, or put together a reading list on a specific topic for a friend with a few clicks.

2a. you can use endnote to search through electronic databases, such as library catalogues, isi web of science and the like. so instead of going online, finding an item, and copying it out, you just start endnote, use the endnote connection and search through the databases with the always same, familiar interface. whatever you've found and like, you just "save" locally - no need to type that reference, not even once.
2b. or you can go to the library catalogue or web of science or whatever you prefer to use to look for literature, find a lot of interesting things, "export" them to endnote format, and then import them to your endnote library. also saves you the time of typing up that bibliography - it's all there digitally already.

personally, i don't find this second function extremely useful, as i tend to collect referencing data as i go along, as i read - i rarely do big searches wanting all results in my computer.

3. and this is the best:
endnote connects with word. when i write, in word, and i want to cite something, i use a few clicks or keyboard shortcuts to get it in, from endnote, even if i don't remember the exact date and bibliographical info. (I could also just write (Bourdieu 1971). that would take me about the same time. but then i wouldn't get a) b) and c) below...)
then:
a) when i finish writing the paper, the bibliography is automatically also finished. i never have to write a bibliography. never ever. it is always just there, waiting, at the end of whatever i'm writing.
b) so i wrote it all in harvard style. so my supervisor (or publisher or whoever) wants it in footnote style. so what? three clicks and it is done. changed. all there in the new style, the whole paper.
c) and i never have to worry about "getting it right". endnote puts it right. (mostly. but that's another topic).

Ooooh! That does look rather fabulous! I shall read up on it and get it going. I have played around but nothing seems to work so am do my biblio by hand :(.

Thanks for the help am soooo grateful!

x J