Hi all,

Im a 2nd year student and have been facing serious issues since day 1. Firstly I started with a background in a different field (albeit related but not enough for phd level) even though my Bsc was related that was long ago. Thus, I found myself having to read ALOT of literature in the first year and begging my second as though it was my first.

On top of that my supervisors are renowned to be strict but also to adopt a "hands off" approach, meaning I write, they read once a month - full stop. minimal (sometimes no) written feedback, no questions or emails in between, and of course no drafts just final copies.

As expected I was forced to seek help from other friendly academics along the way, and was jealous of other students who saw their supervisors either weekly or even daily(!) and got extensive written feedback.

Now I find myself facing the upgrade workshop and after 1.5 years of constantly being told I have no reseqrch question (but having also won a poster prize at a conference and presented to various crowds...), I am at a stalemate..

Now, I need to find a way to write a proposal which will please them 100% in month or I'm in trouble (according to them cause it might be overreacting....).

I would like to ask, what should I do? I cant complain or they will find out, I cant ask for another supervisor in this uni cause they will again cause trouble, and i cant leave because who would take you if you have such reference?

Please note I work every day sundays included 9-5.....something even they recognised....and that's alot.

Hi there,

I know that it is hard when you change disciplines and you do spend have to spend a good deal of time 'catching up'. But it sounds as if you have completed that stage and you must have produced something useful to have won the prize at the conference. So make a list of questions that you are interested in finding the answer to and then start reviewing the relevant literature again and finding anything that's been published recently. You should then be in a position to pick one of the questions or a related group of questions and then write a draft proposal. Provided you have something to show your supervisors that demonstrates your understanding of the main research areas in your field, then they will have something that they help you with even if your proposal does change. I doubt whether they are expecting a perfect research proposal from you.

To be honest, it does sound like your expectations of the amount of contact you have with your supervisors and the feedback you get from them are a little high. I expect most people on these forums see their supervisors only monthly or even less frequently in some cases. The feedback you receive will probably only be general suggestions at this stage and I doubt whether you will receive detailed feedback until you are actually producing work that will feed directly into your thesis. You should be the main driver of your research rather than your supervisors and although it is tough to do, you will be in a much better position once you take control of your work.

Good luck with your proposal (up) :)

number one, find out exactly what you need to submit, because it does vary from uni to uni. Use the administrators of the PhD to get an idea of what is expected, they are the ones who know. Ask a few people who have been through it, again, if you don't know any the administrators will probably be able to help you find one or two. Even at this stage I doubt if the research question will be set in stone for the rest of your work, but you need to sort out what you think it is. It should reflect the aims of your research I have four aims and therefore four research questions which are reflected in my overall title. Once you have got the title, try writing an abstract, one of the supervisors here suggested at a meeting that this is something you should be doing all the time to help you focus your research. Once you have these two elements and your information from the admin staff and fellow students, start writing your proposal for the first time round just write as it comes, then you can start refining it. If it isn't 100% they ususally get back to you for revisions, so don't panic too much.

thanks alot! well my expectations arent really high...i just want what everyone else gets, or at least the option to decide if I want less or more.Also i doubt asking for written feedback rather than a verbal 20minute monologue (ininteruptable btw) to be asking for too much...

I have already submitted a proposal which was trashed, and am now talking to fellow phds close to my work in order to see exactly what they did in their cases.I do know what is required but pleasing my possibly uninterested supervisors is abit tricky. keep in mind my work is also not of direct interest to them as my field is not their main field nor do i use their work.

i do believe though that a solid proposal would convince them.....the sad part is that for others this is not required, or at least mistakes are allowed.

please don't worry about your proposal being 'trashed' as you put it. That is probably not what they are trying to do at all. Some proposals do take longer to get through than others, one of my fellow students has had a proposal rejected a few times,  -but my supervisor said that everything they suggest should be viewed as a positive thing, and that it will just make their work stronger. The admin person also said that they are trying to help, not just being difficult so think of it in that light. You can't make a supervisor have an initial interest in your particular area, especially if it isn't absolutely in their field, but you can get them interested. If you want feedback on a particular area, then ask them, if you want them to read a large piece of work, ask them when would be a good time to give it to them, they may be particularly busy at certain times, but if you indicate you want them to read something they will be able to timetable it in. If you think they might know some books or articles you should read in a particular area tell them what you have read so far, and ask for any further titles. Oh, and remember to take a bit of time off thinking time is very important. when you are doing other things your brain will still be processing stuff in the background, and sometimes that is when inspiration strikes - so don't forget to keep a notebook to hand for that eureka moment!

you are completely right, but as i said im in the 2nd year and my supervisor is not giving me time for amends.....end of may i must present at the annual workshop and hence convince him+her before that or they wont be happy...

I plan to re-submit in 2 weeks and hope for the best....i wish i could take brain breaks but time is never on my side. Maybe if i split the day in 2....but i need all the hours i can get..:-(

Maybe I don't understand, but me and my sup don't do 'written feedback', that's a part of the committee's formal assessment tasks. But doubtless, I have a supervisor with whom I have the best possible of intellectual conversations, and this absolutely directly strengthens my work. I wouldn't imagine doing it otherwise! P'haps it's a question of style...

well thats actually it.....if you are not getting the opportunity for dialogue but just a monologue to which you must take notes (as fast as you can) then you would expect at least written feedback.
And by written feedback I dont mean an essay....I mean to receive your paper back with the corrections on it. Supervisors have to read your paper, so on the way they must write on it, especially if you are working via email and long distance they must give you extensive written feedback (unless you call each other by phone).