Apologies for this being so long!!

I'm doing my MSc at the moment and from the beginning have planned on applying for PhD supervision with two very well-regarded professors from another university, as my research interests match very well with theirs and I like their work. They were also recommended by one of my tutors on my MSc course. However, the same university rejected me at Masters level for quite thin reasons (my tutors at the time were all shocked and thought it wasn't a good decision). Although I was discouraged by this it never really put me off, although recently I have had second thoughts, kind of like a gut instinct. I have also looked at other universities and had other academics recommended to me.

However, I contacted one of the professors from the original university and he called me yesterday to ask about my research interests. Basically the call went well and he seemed to think I would be ok in terms of fitting in with their interests and academic ability, however he wanted me to be more precise with what I actually wanted to research and the area I wanted to focus on. I told him the theoretical background I wanted to come from and the methodology I want to use and that was it basically. He was pleased with the work I had done and with my proposed MSc dissertation topic, and told me that he hoped I would apply.

Today I had a long conversation with my MSc tutor and we developed a proposal idea that I am really pleased with and excited about researching. I had always had that kind of idea in my head but never really articulated it, and I'm really pleased with how today's meeting went - I feel more confident that I have a workable idea now. I would use it in a proposal for the original university I wanted to apply to, however now the timing isn't good.

I need a good few days' work to get it perfect, I have written quite a lot but it needs more background reading. For that university the whole application needs to be in by the 8th Feb, I also have a MSc deadline that day and another 2 days after, and three before then, so it is a really busy time. I effectively lost a month's work time before and during Christmas due to family matters, and they are ongoing, so really I am working hard to try to claw back time now. I still worked during that time, but my heart wasn't in it, I went through a bit of a depressed period really.

I've made a decision, which hasn't been easy, to not apply to the university that I really want to go to and to wait, make my proposal perfect after my MSc deadlines and to focus on my MSc for now, that needs my time. I would apply somewhere else around the middle of February. I'd really appreciate any comments, good or bad on this, am I being too defeatist or am I being sensible?

Sorry its so long again, thanks for reading. Natassia x

Natassia,

there are so many positive things in your post, so many things for you to feel good about. Delighted you have a really good idea for a research project. Are you essentially trying to decide between working hard on the application for your favourite uni or giving up on it entirely and going somewhere else, so that you can spend more time working on your MSc. ? If so, perhaps there is a middle ground. Could you allow yourself to spend say 1 day or even less putting together the application? At least if you apply you have a chance of getting what you want. It seems that they are quite positive about you researching there. This is almost exactly how I ended up where I am now! I turned out I was able to revise and support my application later on in the process but I had to have it submitted on the correct date.

I don't mean to throw a spanner in the works. Getting your MSc is the most important thing for now. Also, having made a hard decision sometimes we're best off sticking with it. Hope this isn't too unhelpful!

hi natassia;
your decision is sensible! This deadline 8th feb will go, but your MSc will come; after that you will meet the next deadline :-) Good luck on your MSc (up)

btw: I also just got myself a new curling tong! I love it so much :-)

love satchi

Hi Natassia -what you decide for yourself is best, always. Even if others say it isn't :-)

How much more would the 8th Feb deadline need in terms of work? Is it more of exploring further or 3 straight days of intense back breaking hard work to hone and polish something and make it done and dusted? Is the work needed on the lines of exploring new territories and making mistakes and learning (and that kind of time) or is it more a question of hunting down approipriate references, giving something a stronger backbone and making it a convincing narrative?

If the latter, would you wish to give it a go? All depends on where you are with it, how much you want this uni to work out, where your priorities are, and what kind of work this proposal now needs.

remember, it's you who knows the ground situation, and only you can make decisions without letting any of us confuse you this way or that!

:-)

Best

Hi Natassia! I almost don't want to respond in the way I am going to, because I'm not sure it's what you want to hear at the moment. But I really believe it, so I'll say it anyway and hope you don't mind. I really don't think you should compromise on either the university, your potential supervisors, or your topic for your PhD...it is really important that you get it right. I can only speak from my experience, but for me if I didn't do my PhD where I am, with the supervisors I have, I can't think of anywhere else or any other people who would be anything like as good for my topic. PhDs are really quite specialised, so it's not necessarily as though you can just apply to a few different universities with the same proposal if it is very specific. In a way, your application is almost more important than your MSc. If you get an offer of funding for your PhD, your MSc will fade into insignificance and it is unlikely that an offer of funding would be dependent on you getting a distinction on your MSc. I obtained funding for my PhD partway through my MSc, and wasn't required to get any particular mark for my MSc, but I was then able to concentrate on the course knowing that my PhD funding was sorted and managed to get a disctinction anyway. I understand what you are saying about wanting to do your best at the MSc, and of course you are right, but if it is at all possible I would really try to stick the application in too. Given your difficult circumstances around Xmas, are you not able to get an extension on any of your MSc work? I know it's not ideal, but it might ease the pressure a bit. Of course, if you know of other paces and people that could supervise your PhD just as well then you can put applications in there anyway- I am just so aware of what it means to have a good supervisor and a good department that I wouldn't want you to compromise and settle for less than the best for you! Hope you don't mind me saying that- I don't mean to pile more pressure on you, I'm just talking from my own experiences and those of my pals! Best of luck with it, KB

Just to add that I would write what KB wrote exactly but was unsure what you wanted to hear...

It's enrtirely your choice, but if I were in your place, I would prioritise a great PHd at a place I truly want to be and just go for it.

(Remem ber though that part of posting on this forum is getting to hear responses which are often poles apart)

Thank you all for the replies, I hope I can respond to them all properly. I expected a variety of honest responses and I really appreciate that.

At the end of the conversation I had with my tutor yesterday, he told me to keep an open mind and that I "might" get into this university but he also mentioned others, and said that I could stay where I was if they managed to get some funding for me, however he is unsure about that due to the economic climate. In the field I'm in the other university and my present university stand out, and there is quite a lot of networking between them, so I wouldn't be at a significant disadvantage for staying where I am. He also said that it would be a shame for them to train me up only for me to go elsewhere which I was quite touched by at the time - I do think that I would be treated very well as a research student there, the other PhD students all actively teach and publish and thats what I want. I have also been told by another senior academic to keep an open mind, and he mentioned others although having looked at their websites I'm not really sure - he doesn't know me so well anyway.

The proposal would need significant work; there are theoretical frameworks involved that are new to me and although I understand them conversationally I need to read up on them to establish my own take on them. I need to go to see other academics at my university as well as it will contain elements from another discipline. So its a case of exploration and making things fit together properly. I would ideally like a week after this deadline.

The trouble is, with how things are going at the moment I'd feel lucky to get a merit for my MSc, which isn't good after my 1st at UG level, and its not what I wanted for my Masters. I haven't submitted anything or had any work back yet so have no evidence to prove that I'm not doing as well but I just don't have an especially good feeling about anything, although I am really enjoying it. I don't feel really out of my depth, I know I have the ability, but I have had some difficult things to deal with at home that have knocked me for 6 really, I never really had that at UG level and it all seemed to come so naturally to me. I could try to get an extension for one of my MSc assignments but that would only be for another week and my new modules start straight after so I wouldn't really have that much more time anyway.
So my confidence has taken a few knocks and I feel more fragile than I did before, when the other university rejected me at MA level I felt terrible and I don't want to go through that again, I have enough going on.

I hope I've replied to you all properly, and thanks again for the useful and honest replies, Natassia x

You've weighed out the pros and cons of this very well and all will be well :-) Focus on what's at hand and things will work out! you're far more determined and organized about this than I was at your stage (you knew you wanted a PhD from your first degree days) and I admire you!!

:-) Cheers

Thats really nice of you to say that, I admire you as well you seem to consistently work so hard just to be able to do your PhD - that shows real determination. I think anyone that is doing a PhD is a genius though, I may appear organised and together but I'm really not!