Hello, people. I feel very unhappy for some time. I have just finished my master degree in computer science in Germany and have excellent grades, with the major exception of my thesis, on which I worked for too long. I really wish to do a PhD, but not necessarily in the field I was doing my master thesis on. However I do not know what to do in order to improve my chances for application.
My number one choice already rejected me, with the professor telling me I am too old to pursue a PhD at 30 and that it would be very difficult. I do not agree with him necessarily,because I already have a masters and need to take no exams, just need to start my research project.
I feel really scared that i might have to give up on my dream and just go to the industry. I will apply to as many positions as possible, but maybe if I get rejected i need to write another master thesis or try for an internship and hope that if I do a good job I might get offer for a PhD.

Hey! Telling you that you're too old to do a PhD at 30 is absolute rubbish! I'm doing a PhD and am 30 next year, and there are loads of people on this forum who are much older than that- some in their 50s I think. You can never be too old to start! What did you score on your masters thesis? If your research grade was really low then this might be the reason for your rejection- after all, the PhD is all about research. Are you looking for a funded position for your PhD or are you planning to self fund? Again, this will have a big effect on whether you are accepted. Best, KB

Age is no barrier to doing a PhD. I am closer to 50 than 40 and loving my second year!

Agree, I'm 38 and really enjoying my second year - and I don't feel at all out of place!

Hey. My thesis grade is equivalent to B-, which is not terribly low, but it is by no means good. Yes that could be a reason. I am looking for funded positions, since I do not think I can focus well enough on a PhD and work at the same time. I got invited to two interviews, though, in major centers, but one of them is not exactly in the area that I like/it is very practical/.

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I started a Ph.D aged thirty and there's plenty older than me who've decided to do similar.

You're implying ageism, which I thought in Germany was outlawed (though in practice it's a hard law to implement). Is it ageism you're facing or problems with your grades?

If the former, you might consider looking outside Germany. I will note that a conference in Italy a good few years back, the Ph.D. student delegates from the German Universities did seem generally younger. Am I reading this the wrong way? I thought there was more a culture of people staying in education in Germany for extended periods compared to Britain, where it's considered a bad thing (you do your degree, possibly your masters, then your Ph.D., then start on your career - avoiding the perpetual student tag).

If the problem is lower grades, perhaps looking at an internship is the way forward. I'm not sure I'd want to do a second Masters dissertation unless it's dramatically going to improve your chances.

A third option might be to work in a relevant job outside academia for a couple of years, as this (at least in Britain) can also count in your favour in future applications for funded Ph.D.s. Would that help?

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

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I'm in a similar position: I had always wanted to be a life scientist, but after completing my BSc (and being awarded a 2:2) I had to admit I hadn't really enjoyed it much and felt burnt-out. I was in desperate need to get out and do something- *anything*- else for a while, and so I began a career break, working in media but with the intention to return to science one day. After six years I found the time was right and I did an MSc, which I enjoyed and appreciated a million times more than my BSc. The research project in particular went amazingly well and convinced me that the life of an academic research scientist was definitely for me...

...but by this point I was 29. After struggling to get on a PhD programme in the UK, and being advised that my 2:2 may have been holding me back, I began applying to programmes in Germany (where a Masters degree is necessary and the MSc grade counts for more), and being dismayed to see many had age limits of 30. When I managed to get invited to an interview week for a very competitive programme there one group leader expressed concern about my age, and said fewer postdoc opportunities may be open to me if I got my PhD in my mid-thirties- in Germany, at least. I didn't get that PhD as none of the projects turned out to be entirely suitable for me (though I passed the interview stage) but I'm wondering if getting that invite was a fluke and a one-off. I have another problem as I'm female, and while I don't want children I'm worried some group leaders will assume that I do, and that I haven't got much time left to find a PhD project.

I'm starting to feel hopeless: working in academic research is all I want to do now and the idea of abandoning my plans and returning to my previous career in media genuinely fills me with dread. Was my plan to return to science ill-thought-out? Should I start to consider alternatives?

Don't be put off by it all though I am quite surprised at the German attitude as I thought they could stay in education for a long time.  That's the impression I got off my German flatmate who seemed to have taken break in the middle of his Bachelor's degree to do some travelling. Another German friend said that they could take years to do their PhDs as there is no definite deadline and she started in her late 20s approaching 30 in Germany! 

Don't worry about the age thing as it's not a problem in the UK. There are plenty of PhDers in their late 20s and beyond and they probably make better students than someone who has just gone through the system and not had a break.  At least you'll be doing this as you really want to do it having had a taste of the "real" world so you'll be more motivated and sure of what you want to do!

It's tough and I know how you feel as you finally found the right career for you but can't seem to get funding for a PhD!  It may be harder with a 2:2 but as you have a MSc that should help upgrade it to the equivalent of someone with a 2:1 so it should not matter so much unless they have also have a MSc. It's a tough environment out there at the moment but I think it's just a waiting game as you apply for studentships and knock on as many doors as possible and hopefully one will open for you!  Have you tried to get any relevant job experience as this also counts towards showing you are serious and want a career in research? Or if you are able to try volunteering as that would definitely show you are keen and might open doors or you?  At least you would get some contacts that way which is very important in academia? And of course you'd also get good references.

Hang in there even though it's disheartening as you feel like you're getting anyway!  Academia is going through a rough patch though it seems to affecting studentships less than postdocs and academics as they seem geared up to focus on training students more than anything else! (up) ;-)

Hi. I do want children, and do not think this should be counted against me. I am not sure if it is just the age- probably age with a combination of my thesis. I have equivalent of B for my thesis and A on all of my courses, so it comes out as A- (1.4) average. I am also applying to stuff not directly related to my master thesis, which somehow seems to be important. I got several interviews, but all of them are in more applied fields of Computer Science, and I was hoping for a more theoretical field (Algorithms). I am knocking on as many doors as possible, however with a thesis in Bioinformatics, most likely I will be able to get only applied positions. (Bioinformatics, Computer Vision etc.)
Do you think I should write my age n my resume, or skip it?I have a photo, however, when you see me, you cannot really guess whether I am 25 or 30.

HI. I am having similar problems and even worst. I am over 30. I finished my master degree in 2007 and decided to do something else to gain some life experience. I find it hard to do PhD as I have been applying for it since 2009 and have not succeed. My previous supervisor told me I need hands-on lab experience. The thing is I have difficulties getting hands-on lab experience as I not in any research environment or in university presently. What should I do? A lot of lecturers from my previous university said I did a great master research. As far as I can see now, it didn't get me anyway. Can anyone help me? By the way I am from Malaysia.

Perhaps you can ask whatever labs available to be a learning technician and learn techniques from them?
but you have to be prepared that they might not pay you.

Age is no longer relevant in UK (well that's the official line anyway!) so you don't need to have it on the CV. I've taken it off mine as I don't think it matters. They still ask for it in the HR bit although usually just the age band you fall into! I don't think whether you want children should matter either although it'd hard to have children and do your project I think as it was tough enough without having to consider them. It can be done as there are people on this forum with children who cope well but I think you have to be super organised!

Good luck.
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