Hi all,

some people say I'm in a luxurious situation because I can choose between 3 PhD positions I have been offered. I find it instead quite an uncomfortable situation since they all seem attractive for some reasons but also have some negative points. The 3 options are Galway (Ireland), Bremen (Germany) or Trondheim (Norway).

In Ireland, I could concentrate on the topic that interest me most. But Galway is quite a small town, isolated from the rest of Europe, and the weather over there is mostly miserable due to lots of rain and wind. Also, I would receive a scholarship rather than a salary. It is of about 1600 Euro/month netto but it does not cover a pension scheme.

In Germany, I would do a slightly less attractive research, but still interesting at a good extent. This is also because it is a so called integrated PhD, where I would have opportunity to follow many interesting side activities and courses. I would also go on a visit of several months to New Zealand. Bremen itself is a very nice city, comfortable to live in and easily reachable for me. Moreover, I'd be able to learn German. The salary there is of about 1100 Euro/month netto on average, plus contribution to pension scheme and some travel refunds.

Finally, Norway. As far as the project is concerned, it's the one that interests me less but also the one which is payed best. Salary is the equivalent of about 2500 Euro/month netto including the pension contribution, which is a lot of money even considering that Norway is one of the world's most expensive countries to live in. In addition, I like outdoor activities and there I would have plenty of opportunity to learn skiing in wintertime and to go cycling in summertime. It is however quite a difficult and expensive location to reach, so I would not go back home often.

What aspect would you proviledge? The two most important ones are interest for research and money. But other aspects such as weather, nature, language may make the difference. I have gathered good opinions on all the potential supervisors. I still have a (very) few days to decide and I'm curious to get some feedback!

hi argonk,

just wondering where you're from, I'm Irish myself. the essential difference between Galway and Dublin: the latter is the economic centre, and in some ways far removed from quintessential Ireland, whilst in the former (and the West in general) you'll find something more raw. It's a place you would like if you've never been there before, especially if you're actively interested in exploring other peoples' culture and such things... but yes the Irish weather can be a heartbreaking lol

In terms of scenic beauty it's hard to do better than Connemara, which is further west of the city. In fact, there are people out there who still speak Gaelic, a language I've almost forgotten about.

I come from Italy, sorry for not mentioning it earlier. Two good friends of mine whom I met in different occasions are from Galway. I have been there twice, but just for a few days each time. I also explored bits of Connemara and the Aran Islands (archipelago at the west end of Galway Bay). Impressive, dramatic scenarios that I'd be glad of discovering more in depth. Not sure how often it'd be possible for me to do that on a bike though, considering the dramatic weather of western Irealnd...

argonk, from my point of view, i'd go with the most interesting project. i'm saying that from the perspective of my own experience. i turned down a well-paid project in my home town, accepted an unpaid place in a different country 9 months later. although it hasn't been easy and there were times when i could have hit myself for not "taking the money and running", overall, i don't regret it. if i would have taken the well-paid PhD, i would have needed all the money to keep myself happy through "retail therapy" - senseless consumerism. because the project, and mostly, the colleagues who all find that sort of thing soooo interesting, would have made me miserable. i admit that having no income at all and having to pay high fees on top of that, has been tough. but still, better that than being saddled with a project you don't like. but that's not your situation. you can get the best project AND it's paid. that's a no-brainer for me.

so you are worried that you are losing out on the big money which you could get with the less-interesting project? well i'd think if you're doing the PhD for the money, it will turn out harder than you expect. if it's the money you're concerned about, consider this: you can make even more money than in the Norway-PhD if you simply get a good job outside of academia. and it might even be more interesting than that PhD which doesn't really catch your enthusiasm. so, if the money factors highly in your considerations, opt for no PhD at all.

and finally, location: things to consider would be... how much of your time will you actually (have to) spend there? what's it like socially, do you have friends there? and the weather: there's no such thing as bad weather. there is just inappropriate clothing. cycling around in a rainy but beautiful irish landscape - sounds amazing to me!

Thank you very much for your feedback, Shani.

I've noticed that younger people at the beginning of their carreer (like you, I suppose) tend to priviledge the project. Instead, talking with elder people they have no doubt in going where they pay more.. maybe that is because the latter people are not really satisfied with their own job, but it can also be that they are giving importance to my minor but still non negligible interest for the Norwegian PhD, so why not being better remunerated.

Considering nature, I must say that I'm more attracted by what I could experience in Norway rather than the Ireland. That's simply because I like to see trees and I'd love to experience snow.

Anyway, Bremen (the less payed position) is gaining points in my decision. Altough nature over there is less interesting than in the other two locations, it represents the place where I think I'd live more comfortably. But I haven't decided yet...

hey argonk - you read me wrong there - i started my PhD at age 30. i went for the project, because i felt i knew exactly what i wanted to do - because i had the experience and maturity. i could afford being unfunded because i had savings from earlier income. i have supported myself financially since i started at university when i was 20 and because of that i know that i can make things work, and that money is not what makes me happy. oh, i tried very hard to deal with the prof who offered me a very well paid PhD - if he would have left the project just the slightest bit open, i could have wrenched some interest out of it. and i would have gone for that. but a project which just gives me prospects of boredom, it would be pure "work" - i can earn lots more by doing work in a different sector. so instead i didn't take a slightly more interesting project, but rather: i googled where my favourite researcher is currently, and applied there and no-where else. she is now my supervisor.

one last thought that occured to me: if the extra money is indeed an important factor, did you do the sums re taxes and living costs carefully? in most places, studentships/stipends are untaxed, whereas wages are taxed. i imagine that norway has quite high taxes. added to the high living costs, it might mean that you actually don't earn as much more as you are thinking.
i just know from experience that Germans who come to Switzerland often just see the higher wages. and they are indeed significantly higher, and lower taxes, too! BUT the living costs gobble up most of the difference. many Germans who go to Switzerland accept relatively low wages because it is still a lot of money to them, and then find they struggle to make ends meet. so what i'm saying is really just, do the calculations carefully if you are going to base your decision on how much you'll be earning.

oh, and a final final thought:
i know the "germanic" and the "english" PhD systems a bit, but i don't know if that helps to compare ireland and norway. but do consider: in england, you get your studentship, and it is not a lot of money, but a) it's untaxed and b) you are expected to do your PhD and nothing else (there are advantages and disadvantages to that). in germany on the other hand, you get your wage, which is taxed, and you are expected to work for your professor who has employed you. in some cases, this turns out really well. in other cases it basically means that you spend all your working days on projects for your prof and try to squeeze in some work on your PhD in the evenings and weekends. it is thus not unusual that paid PhDs in the germanic system take significantly longer than in England.

Hey, I'm 30 and feeling -as well- definitely young enough to start a PhD. Although my lifestyle hasn't changed since then, I'm not 23 anymore so that's why I am thinking about starting to pay a pension contribution. This is an advantage of getting a salary instead of a scholarship.

You are right regarding taxation. Scholarships are indeed tax-exempted, while a salary is not. However, the amounts I mentioned above about PhD salary in Germany and Norway are effectively what you get after taxation.

I agree that if the main concern is earning money, then doing a job which does not require to pass exams (as it is instead for PhDs in Norway), would be a better way. Also, a PhD should take about 3 years, after which there will hopefully be more economically interesting opportunities. But if I don't choose Norway I would still miss my almost daily cross-country skiing!

Anyway, I think I will be more than happy with the money of Galway or Bremen, which would allow me to live comfortably, get a new bike, a nice camera and, when not utterly busy with the work, to travel around.

I'm actually more attracted by living in Bremen, as well as by their education offer (I mean the side courses I can follow to get a wider background). At the same time, I always had some doubts about the project in Galway. These doubts are mainly due to the fact that they first got the money for research, and then they looked for a way of using it. This explains why they proposed me to investigate some topics that are interesting to me. I'm a little worried to get stuck somewhere, I must say.