Hi everyone, I have been mooching around this place for quite a while now looking for PhD's, reading every ones advice. You all seem really friendly and eager to help, so i decided maybe its time I pop my head in ask!!

I have wanted to undertake a PhD since i first started Uni, I love to learn and really want to specialise in one area....but.....

Basically I'm not your top of the class straight A student but i try so hard its unbelievable. I come from a lower class background but it has given me a drive to be the best that I can. It was a struggle at first getting myself back into uni, after not doing so well at college due to personal circumstances. But I managed to graduate second highest in my class and just narrowly missed a 1st by 1%. I was disappointed, but I was determined it wouldn't get me down, I got accepted onto a masters but this is where it all went wrong ...

The first part of the course was great, i got lots of A's and B's and had secured myself a Merit as long as i got at least 60% for my project, As all my marks all were above 60% (and i very rarely got below this in undergrad and MSc) i didn't think i would have a problem, but low and behold i got my project back and i just scrapped the pass mark of 50%!!

I had a lot of trouble with my supervisors during my project, basically i had two and in the six months (i was abroad for 3 months to carry out data collection) I managed to see one once. My emails were never answered, and i struggled getting the help i needed to use the programmes to analyse my data. In the end i wrote about what i thought was relevant and self taught myself the basics of the programmes, but couldn't do anything in depth, even though i was begging everyone to help, no one was about. Obviously this was not what my supervisors thought appropriate in the end from the comments i received! Basically said i was lacking focus, too generalised and data analysis was to brief, and spelling, punctuation, grammar etc was rubbish!!

Anyway so i only got a pass in the end for my masters, I am in the process of rewriting my thesis, not to get remarked but to try and get it published because it was on an endangered species, and i guess to prove to myself i can do it!....trouble is my supervisors still haven't been that helpful, one is really supportive, but is just so busy, i don't know what will happen.

Ok, so now i have my undergrad (2:1) and masters (pass) i really want to do a Phd, I have loads of field research experience but having done so bad in my masters I'm pretty sure no one will look twice at me :-(

....my second problem is I'm dyslexic so i cant even write decent cover letters to help my case....

I'm just wondering what peoples views are, do you think having done so bad in the research part of my Masters, it will affect my PhD applications??

Sorry about the essay lol i guess i'm venting frustrations :-)

OK only have a few minutes to write so will keep it brief:
1. You don't need to give up right away, but you need to be prepared for multiple knock-backs.
2. You need to get help with letter writing if you're struggling; you evidently managed two good degrees without it and your writing (above) is pretty cogent. Ask friends/family/anyone else you can think of to help you with proof reading.
3. It will be an uphill struggle; if you have supervisory issues (which it sounds like you did) you're expected at this stage to try and stand up and say something at the time. You didn't. This now makes you mark difficult to justify without bleating about how poor your old supervisors were to potential new supervisors. Which will be a problems.

What subject would you be applying for PhDs in? If it is a science subject then I would have thought that a 2.1 and a Masters (pass) would be enough to be in with a decent chance of getting on a PhD with funding.

Hi Thank for the replies.

I'm studying Conservation. I have managed to get tow really good projects, my undergrad ran for a year and was very field based and the results of which were passed onto my local wildlife trust to use in there new management plans for this particular area. The second i lived and worked abroad for three months, collecting and analyzing data on an endangered lizard species. I was told the results that i collected for this project were really good, but my analysis was not in depth enough (due to not being able to use the programmes), although there was a slight issue with data given to me collected in previous years. Also as i said it lacked a focus, which I'm working on, trying to re write it!!

Anyway I did try so hard to get help from my supervisors but there wasn't much i could do but email while i was away, i emailed on numerous occasions but got very limited responses.

When i got back, they all went on Holiday!! again there wasn't much i could do, so i tried desperately to find other people around the uni that could help, but everyone was either busy or on holiday! A couple of people helped me with my data and thanks to them i got something to write about but it was quite basic as they too didn't know the programmes and so had to use other means, which wasn't really what i should have done.

So yeah i know I'm in a bit of a pickle and cant say my supervisors where rubbish, not that i would dream of saying that anyway, i know there really busy and deserve holidays etc, but I'm just disappointed and know i could have done much better with just a little more guidance, and it wasn't through lack of trying to get help, there just wasn't anyone around! and it probably doesn't help I'm quite a quiet person too :$

On the dyslexic note, i do get help with letters and stuff but i just worry about content, as my help are not science people and therefore have no clue what I'm writing about most of the time lol

Just to affirm what the other posters have said - ideally you should have spoken to your Head of Dept when you felt you were not getting the support you needed, especially in light of your dyslexia. However, I know this is easier said than done, many PhD students have trouble doing this, nevermind at Masters level. Unfortunately for PhDs universities do look at your independent research projects, and look for maturity and ideas there. The fact you didn't act to change supervisors may go against you.

Saying that, I think the best option would be to brush up on those areas you know are perhaps not as strong (getting more detail in there) and demonstrating to potential supervisors that you have worked on that. Unfortunately you will need to learn to write an excellent cover letter, as this is your best chance to get onto a funded PhD. However, most university careers departments will help you with this - or perhaps a former lecturer can if you were close to any of them. Careers services are normally available 1-2 years after you graduate.

Unfortuantly i tried this aswell, I spoke to my course leader, they said they cant help holidays and arrangements should be made around these. There were complaints from other people who had the same superviosr so they were well aware of the situation, but seemed to do nothing against this - we were told to do what we can and they would help any way they could....

It got took up a level also because as i had fallen behind i asked for a week extension explaining everything in detail as to why i had fallen behind regarding going here there and everywhere for help. He refused my request stating dyslexia does not give grounds for extensions on research project - i seemed to hit a wall wherever i went!!

I totally understand that potential PhD supervisors will be looking for and that's why i'm worried, because i know that i'm more than capable of undertaking a PhD, but this blip may have ruined that!! Hence why i'm trying to re write my project, i know it wont change my grade but i'm hoping it will shows that i am capable and i dont just give up when things dont go to plan

I still think there's an issue in terms of you not having taken things to their ultimate end-point.
At my University if an extension was refused when someone had dyslexia, there would have to be serious reasons (i.e. the student having shown no attempt to do any work before the extension). I know of people who had similar supervisory issues to you but were given an extension by virtue of it. So I'm a bit confundled.
Unfortunately making a show of your maturity and ability to resolve problems is part of a PhD application. If you've been kicking up a fuss at your 'home' institution referees might reflect this.....I'm intrigued as to at what point (i.e. how early on) you started to make other people aware of the issues you were facing.
I know at certain Universities (Oxford for one, at least in the department I was at) Masters students are explicitly told they will get no assistance with dissertations between June-September other than weekly problem solving meetings which aren't supposed to be about substantive things to do with the thesis.
It's also slightly concerning that you were surprised by your thesis mark. I didn't get the mark I wanted for my MA thesis but was fully aware that this was going to be the case when I submitted it.

Its a difficult one, I was told from my uni on research projects dyslexia does not even come into it due to it being a long project, i took this as fact as it came from the msc director bloke. I guess every uni is different.

However i would hate for you all to think i didn't put any effort into my project, I worked really hard, to begin with i spent about 4 weeks writing a proposal for the project and defining objectives and carry out literature surveys, then straight after i went abroad for 3 months - working 6 days a week collecting data in a undeveloped country (extremely hard work!). In the evenings the data was then written up into spreadsheets and any other time i had left i was going through my papers, writing notes and reading up on the programmes i was using - as mentioned questions that came up at this point weren't really answered so i had to wait until i got home. Halfway in i began analysing the first half of data that in the programmes i knew how to use. Once i got back i had about 7 weeks to learn my other programmes analyse my data and write up!

At no point have i been rude to my supervisors, and i have said i am in contact with one now, he knows the problems i had and he is more than willing to help me re-write, and has said he thinks its great that i have decided to that step when others would just give up - the only problem - he is still very busy, but extremely supportive!!

There was no point that we were told we wouldn't get help after a certain point and at no point were we advised what kind of mark to expect. When i got back from from field work i had an interim viva where i discussed my data and what needed to be done and the lack of contact, it was all taken in and i was told i was doing fine. An arrangement was made for me to see my other supervisor at another university to try and sort out my questions this helped clarify a few points but not enough time to go through everything - then he went on holiday!

So i just wanted to clarify im not one of these people who put no effort in and cant understand why they failed, i worked really hard and i know exactly why things went wrong went wrong, i was off topic and i needed more in depth analysis, which i'm sure if i had more time i would have been able to do. I Feel like i did all i could to voice my concerns, but I can see how to others it may seem i did very little, but i can assure you that's not the case :-(

I just wanted a little advice about my chances of getting a PhD and if any one could offer some advice, which you have and i appreciate, but i guess if you guys are thinking i didn't put the work in then potential supervisors are gonna think the same - this makes me a little sad

Speaking personally, I don't think its the case that you didn't try, it is simply clear that you were let down at a number of levels, and that you did not (perhaps) help yourself as much as you could. It seems as though you did not fully organise times and schedules with your supervisors before you went on your fieldwork or otherwise they should not have been away on your return. The issue is that part of being an independent researcher (especially for a PhD) is being able to structure your work with and around your supervisor... this is what people are looking for. Yes, it was a blip, but a fairly significant one in the eyes of potential PhD places.

Sadly, the option left to you is to explain the situation, but more importantly, to explain how you have now rectified those errors. Unfortunately academia leaves very little room for 'blips', it is far too competitive for that.

I agree with Sleepyhead. You have been unlucky and let down - and unfortunately weren't able to compensate or rectify that at the time. I saw a few people have similar problems with there masters when I was doing mine (myself included). One of the others failed completely and another dropped her distinction due to getting almost failing her project. She had already been offered funding on her expected results and it was not withdrawn. The other did a PhD elsewhere on the strength of his first degree alone.

It's not always possible to sort out bad supervision - I have learnt that the hard way. But it is very common and there may be some diplomatic way to describe your situation. I think if you could publish form your thesis that would be a really big help.

If you can self-fund, or go part-time and work to fund, then I think you could definitely still get a place if you click with a supervisor. But funding will be next to impossible. I know people in conservation work - funding is desperately competive. Getting more field experience might help a lot - you'd have new references too. It is sometimes possible to publish from such work too. Funding loves publishing.

If you are really keen I wouldn't say give up but take the long view.

I think you just have to move forward. You have what you have in terms of qualifications, and you can't change that.
A 2.1 plus a pass at 50% isn't necessarily going to work in your favour, but it equally doesn't exclude you from being successful at PhD level. Your experience with lack of supervision/support is nothing new, and many students find themselves with lower grades because of it. E.g. I did my masters thesis with one 10 minute meeting with a supervisor - this lack of supervision cost me my distinction by 1%! Many years later, this still pisses me off.

You need to be pragmatic with yourself and assess whether you have the ability/drive/determination etc. to do a PhD, and most importantly, whether you can cope with researching and working by yourself. At PhD, you may find yourself with less support than you have experienced at masters level.

Secondly, you need to exploit your strong points - for instance, get that dissertation published. A published article would certainly make up for your poor masters performance, and immediately says to any admission officer/future supervisor that you can produce publishable quality work.

Thirdly, with respect to cover letter etc., use the careers service at your old uni, I'm sure they'll help you out with applications. Also, if one of your supervisors is friendly, then ask them for help too.

Also, on a side note, just a friendly warning: be careful about mentioning your class background - this doesn't sit well with some academics as they view it as nothing more than an excuse. Of course, there is class system in academia, (Brown has recently admitted it with respect to working class graduates being unable to afford unpaid internships and disproportionate admissions of private schools kids into the top 20 uni's etc...) but just be careful about it.

I second everything that has already been said......
As MissSpacey says, the class thing is definitely a bad idea to mention as there will be innumerable people from working class backgrounds who've bucked the trend (whatever trend there was in the first place).....
By your own account you underperformed at A level, undergraduate and postgraduate levels so it is worth being very honest with yourself about whether it indeed was an 'underperformance' -- or you hit the wall.
You need to set about doing the things that might get you a PhD now, but have a back up plan.

Well thanks for everybodys advice, i shall take it on board and try!

I shall speak to my supervisor and see what he suggests too. Just to clarify I hope my writing style hasnt made me come across as a whiny brat cos that wasnt my intention!! Im actually 27, and i would consider myself quite mature lol

Anyway I would not use my background as an excuse for anything, i mentioned it just to get a bit of background info about my situation for my post, Im proud and wouldnt have it any other way, i worked hard to get where I am, i appreciate everything and I wouldnt be who I am today if i had more when i was younger.

I dont think I underachieved - well I did for my Alevels, but to account for that i took home study courses while i worked full time to get myself ready for university. my grades at uni typically ranged between 65-75% even in the 80's and one 99% - so i wouldnt say that i underachieved there. My MSc i believe i got 56% overall although, and this was down to the weighting of the final project, my other grades were consitent A's and B's. I said i wasnt a straight A student, but not an underachiever!!

I know how how competive conservation is!! But i have made some good contacts, and i do have plenty of field experience and work experience - so im just goin to have to give it my best shot.

Thank you all again for you help, I have taken it on board, i guess theres always a glimmer of hope - as they say life is one big giagantic test followed by one big gigantic lesson!!

Cheers Guys
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