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Is it worth applying for a Postdoc job, with nothing published?

4

I know we talked about a similar thing before, but I couldn't find the thread on the forum search.

I have presented my work at several conferences and workshops, but never published anything. Now the person who is going to decide whether or not they are interested in my work wants to see a published paper, before I submit my official application for the postdoc job. I feel a bit embarrassed to send an unpublished paper to him. Do you think it is possible to move to a postdoc position without publications?

S

You (almost) read my mind. I'm nearly writing up, and although I have absolutely NO intention of working in academia - or anything related to my PhD - when I complete, I still keep an eye on current postdoc vacancies. I don't have anything published, and it bothers me to think that even if I pass my PhD, people wouldn't employ me as a postdoc because I don't have a 'proven record of publications'.
I don't know the answer to your question - I often wonder how strict the person specification bit of job adverts is - are they minimum requirements or a profile of the IDEAL (non-existent?) candidate? I guess *someone* would take you on (not meaning to make you sound like a charity case - this is how I would feel about myself if I was applying for jobs), but if there was competition for the post, I'm pretty sure someone with publication(s) would be at an advantage.

S

That said, if you have work WORTHY of publication then I'm sure a prospective employer would recognise that (assuming that the field you will be entering is similar to your present work). By looking at your unpublished work they would be conducting their own peer review.
Can I ask you a question? I was just thinking of posting it... Regardless of the publications issue, have you found many positions for which you think you are a good match? I mean, something that REALLY fits what you have been 'trained' for? I've been looking at job ads for around 2 years and in that time I've probably seen 3-4 positions that I have the necessary experience for. I've found the ads to be REALLY specific. Maybe this doesn't apply to you if you're hoping to move into a new area...

F

I do think it is possible. I think Sue is right in saying that you are worthy of publication. I would send an unpublished one (better than nothing). Your work still stand on its own anyway and its not all about publishing. I am sure you have lots of other great skills that will be useful for a postdoc position.

Sue, I know what you mean about positions that fit, there are not many!

S

After that post I'm sure no-one will believe I'm NOT staying in academia. But, really, I'm NOT. I guess I just keep looking at the adverts so I can see whether it's even a possibility. Like I keep looking at conferences I have no intention of going to.

S

(I meant my last post, not fluffymonster's)

F

No worries, I know what you mean. A bit like me looking at houses we clearly could never afford without a lottery win.

P

sue - you read my mind. I am currently writing (yet another) application for a job. It is a research assistant in science, but the 'Essential' criteria I have to address are so specific I strongly doubt anyone in the world could fit all of them. And I find this with job ads all the time.

Classic example was an ad for what was basically a person to wash the glassware in a lab, paying $35,000 Aussie/year (equivalent to about 50p!) and one of the essentials was a science degree with honours and a desirable specification was a postgrad degree (masters/PhD) in microbiology. That is ridiculous. No person with honours and a PhD/masters is going to wash glassware for $35,000...not even me and I am long-term unemployed!

It is all downright depressing...not to mention time-consuming. I just want to write "I have excellent oral communication skills as demonstrated my the fact that for 31 years I have been able to talk" in an application!

4

fluffymonster, thank you for that encouraging reply.

Sue, also thanks for your answer. I am glad to hear I'm not alone. And I think I can understand what you mean about not staying academia. To be honest, I wasn't at all considering a postdoc until recently. I looked at the ads last year but only to see what's available. My funding ends in September. I started to panic a little about "what's next". I am only looking at 1 year fellowships and or 2 year postdoc positions if it allows some form of independence (i.e not having millions of seniors working on the similar thing in the same lab etc.). I found a few that I feel very confident with, but not having anything published scares me a bit, even though none of them mention publications on their "must" list.

4

lol Piglet, that's a good point

4

sue, I thought about your question again, and it made me think about different types of ads I have seen. Just like with PhD ads, there seem to be two kind of postdoc opportunities. Some are attached to a particular project, therefore the person's criteria is very specific. Therefore the job is very specific. The types of ads I look at are the ones that look for a research fellow for the certain department or research lab within the department where they want new projects. That's what I did with my PhD too. I hope I am making sense.

So coming back to the original question; are you (in a way) looking for a specific project that fits your requirements (if you were to stay in academia of course)?

N

I think it depends also on your subject. I know people of my area who got post-doc jobs with virtually no publications, so I don't think it's a must in my area (however this was 5-10 years ago, things may be more competitive now). But in other areas people seem to publish from the very beginning of their PhD and end up with 5 or 6 publications.

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