Hi,

I was just wondering if anyone around here is doing a creative PhD, (such as in Creative Writing), and has to complete a piece of creative work as well as a thesis? I am in the middle of one and I have to complete a literary novel in the first half... which I'm finding very tough. I have plenty of confidence when it comes to literary criticism, but less when it comes to writing a work of fiction myself. Any positive thoughts on similar experiences would be more than welcome!

I am not, my research is in law, but this sounds so very interesting! I wish you the best with this project. I find that it is possible to think of all of the PhD as a creative writing project, in that, the challenge is to make it very readable, and interesting, while still being correct and technical where needed. Law can be a very dull subject, and yet, there are some scholar/writers who find that mix, and that is my ambition--to have a sound PhD that is also a very literate and interesting one--one that would not double as a cure for insomnia...but who knows?

In my pre PhD days, I had the ambition to write a novel, and went so far as to have a working draft tentatively accepted by an agent, but then went through a divorce, a change of jobs, etc, and never went back to it, though I am hoping post PhD to return to my true writing loves which are fiction and poetry. Compared to PhD writing, fiction writing for me was a joy, though no less work in its way, but a chance to just let your mind go, and to write...freed up from footnoting everything as you go!

Thanks for the comments... you're right, the creative part probably is a lot more fun than the academic writing. However - when you're sitting in the library surrounded by great literature it's also pretty daunting! You should definitely go back to writing as soon as you can, sounds as if you had a talent for it. And good luck when you do.

Although my PhD isn't a creative PhD per se, I find researching and writing what is essentially a history PhD a creative process.

Lots of room for daydreams!

All the work I've produced thus far has been an excercise in creative writing. And creative stats. And very much creative logic!

Bet my stats are more creative still

Leone - can you explain the structure of you PhD a bit more? How is it constituted around the novel writing?

Well, basically it's done in two halves - the PhD is awarded based on the submission of an original literary work (usually a novel) and a thesis. The novel has to be written first because the thesis has to address some question arising from it, then be backed up with research into other relevant literary sources. I also have to provide detailed notes on the writing process in the form of a writing diary, which can be drawn upon later if needed.

It's quite a strange way of doing a PhD, because essentially the creative work informs the academic work. The good thing about it is that it's easy to be original.

Do you have any particular constraints on your novel form - any particular literary styles, themes - or is it completely open? Very interesting project.

That's fascinating.

Do you have complete freedom regarding the content or theme of your novel? Do you know what it will be about? What influence will the advisors have on the development or wrting of the novel?

Oh, that sounds so fascinating Leone! Do keep the forum informed of how this goes!!!!! Part of me really envies you because wow...what a great thing to be doing a PhD in--though no doubt like all PhDs its got its challenges!

Thanks for being interested - it's nice to be asked about it!

It's completely open. Any style, themes, structure or story. The only constraint is that it must be "literary". A supervisor (usually a writer of some sort as well as an academic) critiques early drafts and raises questions where necessary to help you develop.

As to ideas, well, I did try mapping my novel out in an outline but the story ended up feeling "forced". Consequently, three months ago I (tearfully) threw away five chapters and started again. This time I am writing organically, trying to allow my story to grow. I have a rough direction for the narrative but it's not set in stone and the characters have room to react. It feels a bit like a game of chess in that I have one or two moves in mind ahead of me, but I'm not certain what the final outcome will be.

Hope I haven't bored anyone with all that!

My PhD isn't creative per se - it's in English Literature but as chrisrolinski said, the arts and humanities are imaginative by nature - but I am writing a novel so what you've said about your own creative process is very interesting! I studied creative writing during my BA but I found it didn't work for me nearly as well as simply writing a LOT, finding out as much as I could about the business, forming friendships with other writers and just generally treating it as my job rather than my subject. I'm still intrigued by the idea of a creative doctorate though.

Out of interest, how do you personally distinguish a 'literary' novel from a popular one? I debate this idea a lot with bookish friends.

English Lit? I envy you the amount of knowledge you must have ammassed by now - My undergraduate degree was in Arabic, and my masters in screenwriting and film, so I'm still playing catch-up when it comes to modern and classical literature in English.

Hmm. Good question, haunts me too. There are endless theories but I think that in novel writing terms, it is a good story well told. After all, there are many good stories badly told and many bad stories fairly well told. For me, at the risk of over simplifying a complex debate, it has to be both style and content combined.

hey leone, i love your comparison to chess. being a chessplayer myself it totally clicks with me. i'm not doing a "creative" PhD but i think it works for other PhDs as well. i think i will try conceiving of my PhD as a game of chess from now on - cause although you need a big picture and a strategy of where you are going, for every individual single move you need to consider the current situation and two or three moves ahead, and that is much more manageable - you can never see ahead as far as the end of the game! unless you are nearly there.
and although there is always some insecurity - just because you can't see the end - you still need to make a move. you need to keep going. and the good thing is, you don't "lose" in your PhD - unlike in chess, if really necessary, you can go back and correct your moves!