Ok folks, as some of you know I kinda have problems with my sup - as most of us do i'm sure! Anyway, i'm half way through the writing, and have been sending him a chapter at a time to go through.
My intro came back a while ago with highlighted points to change etc, but then he said if I make these changes he doesn't want to see it again!
Chapter 2 - he said was awful and wanted to go through it bit by bit with me so i didn't make the same mistakes again. So we sat down together for afew hours and went through it sentence by sentence, him changing one word to another cos he preferred that one! anyway, I understood with the majority where he was coming from and have done my best to avoid these mistakes again. however, judging by what we actually changed - mainly style, it wasn't SO awful after all. not great, but he was being melodramatic.

Last week I sent off chapter 3 and I got it back on friday. I'm not sure if this is wrong but he goes through it and will change the odd word himself, or correct a spelling mistake and then just highlights it for me so I know (I feel like this is cheating and wrong, but its not actual changes in ideas etc, just odd grammatical errors or spelling mistakes so not sure??).
Anyway, at the top he just wrote - remember paragraph styles and stay in past tense, so I went through it all and made sure I had adhered to this and changed my tense errors etc. However he made no other comments, about whether it was good, content wise etc. So I emailed and asked him if this was good, bad etc, how was content.
He said, not good but not ugly! (that's it!), so i emailed back and said, ok, could you expand on that, should I be rewriting, sorting out my argument, which bits are bad, intro, discussion, results etc? And he's just emailed back to say, just leave it as is! - Now i'm just confused!!!!
I know sometimes he is just really sarcastic, and maybe he was being, and he's always pretty dry and doesn't do compliments etc (not that I expected any), but I am getting no critical feedback, and just dread getting to viva and finding out that its all a load of cr*p!!!

I'm not sure where the line is though? If content and argument etc are bad, how much does sup comment or just say redo it until you get it right? I've never had any feedback in any form from him so I don't know what is normal, and I don't want to go and complain and get a second opinion unless there's a reason to! He's never had a failed phD student, and I would hope he wouldn't let me down, therefore do I trust that although what i've written isn't amazing its enough for a pass, which lets face it, at this stage is all I really want!!!

Thanks folks,
AL

I'm having similar problems. My supervisor is melodramatic and tells me my work is shocking, inadequate, I'm going to be kicked out, etc. Needless to say, this does not motivate me, it just stresses me out... and I don't think it's really true either, otherwise I would have been kicked out by now!

I am trying to focus on the useful feedback and use it to redraft my work, while trying to ignore the more melodramatic statements and not feel bad and stressed. Perhaps your supervisor doesn't understand how much of a negative effect unconstructive criticism can have - the aim is probably to motivate you, but it's having the opposite effect and is just making you worry. Try to focus on the positive feedback you receive and ignore the rest.

OMG he sounds like my No 1 supervisor - I'm at v early stage so only had research proposal approved but the first draft of that came back with comments like "Yuk" "get rid" "don't like" "change this" "improve" with little or no guidance eon how it needed improving or what he didn't like.  One of my colleagues at work (different uni) said he seems really picky but that it will stand me in good stead for later on. I think there is an element in some supervisors in points scoring and finding fault (to justify their existence) and if they can't criticise your methodology or findings they pick holes in your writing.  Do you have a second supervisor you could seek advice from?

Hey! I only thought my supervisor was queen of negative feedback! It sounds like you actually need to meet up with him and ask for more detailed feedback- I don't think 'not good but not ugly' is really sufficient at the stage you're at. What's he like face to face?
If I'm stuck on something I always discuss it in detail in supervision with my sup, and I make sure we keep going through it until it's clear in my head and I'm confident that I know what I need to do to improve it. Sometimes I ask a really dumb question and my sup looks at me like I'm a complete moron (she also looked at me like this when she found me reading heat magazine over my lunch once) but I just try not to worry about it and console myself that at least I know how to put it right! Sometimes she does leave little comments on my work like 're-word this' or 'I don't like this word' etc, when I really can't see anything wrong with it, but most of the time I just do it to keep her quiet, unless it's something I really disagree with. I would def ask to see him in person, and get him to go through it with you there and then so you can write down any comments and discuss how to rectify any problems while you're at it. You need more feedback than you're getting and you're not being unreasonable in the slightest! Best, KB

Hi all, thank you so much, its good to know i'm not alone! unfortunately I never get any GOOD feedback, just odd changes and what a load of rubbish - bit of a contradiction in terms but I guess its just the way he is. I just have to look on the bright side and think he wouldn't let me fail therefore he must just be being melodramatic and absolutely pathetic really!!

I do have a second sup, I gave him my chapter 2 at same time as main sup and still not heard back...he's also clinical rather than science, and although v. good consultant, not the best at scientist, so I count him as more of a proofreader, and good with the clinical side of my writing, which was mainly in my intro rather than experimental chapters. I do send him everything though, and hope at somepoint he might read them!

I have thought about going to the head of my monitoring committee who I get on pretty well with, and seeing if she could read through some of it for me, but I don't want to cause a rift, as i'm not sure if by going to her it would cause consequences, such as her having to deal with it professionally etc. I just want someone to read it and tell me if it is up to scratch and someone will give me my doctorate, or whether it is terrible. although, in some respects I would quite like to complain about the lack of help he has given me I would prefer to wait til it is all done and signed off!

Anyway, thanks for your comments and making me feel less alone on this. I just really wanted to know how much a sup is allowed to comment, or whether, as it is independent work they can not comment on your content.

Keep smiling, and just keep thinking that after this is over we'll never have to deal with them ever again - that's what keeps me going! :) AL

God he really sounds like a right knob! I'd agree with keenbean and try to see him face to face, that kind of feedback at the final stage really isn't good enough. And if he won't give you decent feedback, go to someone else and ask for help, it's your PhD at the end of the day and no point not getting it how you want it just to keep him happy. Good luck with it!!

Hi AL

Yep, he sounds like a right tool and his comments are not enough. I think you need to have a serious talk with him, and ask for more constructive, detailed feedback. I also think it's awful that he doesn't know one of the basics of teaching - that you give positive feedback before negative, to motivate people. I think I'd try and be assertive and let him know that constantly negative feedback is not helping, that what he does give is inadequate etc - all said very tactfully, of course.

My sup is wonderful, and gives me detailed, constructive feedback, on structure, style, content, the whole lot. She also changes words, but not unnecessarily so and I can see her choice of words is better. Talk to him, tell him what your needs are. Good luck!

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Thanks AQ, yes, you are right, i've got to be firm, i'm just not good at that with him as he's pretty disparaging, and yeah KB I know the feeling, he always looks at me like i'm a moron! But I'm going to stand my ground, and keep annoying him til i get what I want! I think he's just a bit lazy tbh and can't be arsed, but I think he owes me, in 4 years I've never demanded much of his time, i've got on with everything myself and even brought him in a good bit of money through grants, so I think he can at least give me this!

I've just emailed him and said ok, but i dont' understand, if its not good but not ugly that means its not great and therefore needs some work. I don't want to get to viva and find that there is major corrections and I don't have a strong enough argument, i'd prefer to deal with this now! So if I do need to work on it then please give me some feedback so i can sort it out and make it good!

I'll keep you all posted with what he says, I just don't know whether actually it is fine and he just doesn't have it in him to say so and therefore has to make derogatory comments, or whether it does need work! I really want him to come back and say it is fine, it will pass etc, and just leave it (as I don't have the strength to fix it!), but I'd prefer to do it now than later! or maybe i'm just so pathetic that I need to see it in writing that it's ok, for once in all these years I NEED him to say, you're doing fine, keep going and you'll be there soon! how sad am i!!!!!!

Not to add anything, but my sup (the master of criticism) began our last supervision, with the following

Sup: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. PhD Bug, what have we here?

Bug: Chapter 3

Sup: Hmm. Explain to me, its role in your narrative?

Bug: blah blah.

Sup. Hmm. PhD Bug, my dear, I must confess, I struggled with this text. You throw out lovely ideas, and leave the reader stranded. Your writing, though, is beautiful.

Bug: Uhm. thanks. So, uhm

Sup: Yes, this needs work. A huge lot of work. Ok, so..

then 55 mins of criticism after which I felt I needed to lie down.

wow - beautiful writing? can't all have been that bad.

I think you should probably interpret it as 'it'd scrape through but we might need to revisit the chapter depending on how it reads when the whole thing is written'. Or at least that's what my supervisor would have meant by that comment. I found that she was very picky about style and grammar from the start but the major comments on content came when she'd read nearly the full draft and could really see where the holes in the argument are. I asked why she hadn't criticised the chapters individually earlier on content, and she said that she'd found that if you hammered earlier chapters, students got bogged down in trying to perfect them and got very discouraged, whereas if you got more or less a full draft and then started to improve it, then they seemed to stay on track better. THis was also a v experienced supervisor with no failed students (I also passed with minimal corrections) so it might bee the track your supervisor is following too.

Thank you for all your comments!
bewildered, you're probably right and I will stay positive and think that and see what happens!

I got a response back to my email saying "give it a rest, get on with the next chapter AL!" how nice eh! Oh well!

Just come home to get some work done, switched washing machine on and then got knock on the door from guy downstairs cos he's got water coming through his ceiling!!!!! :-s got electrician out and everything, and washing machine broke! ARGHHHH why is there always something to spend money on and stress about, now its 8pm, not had dinner yet or done any work, and time is just slipping away from me. It feels like everything is against me.

Oh well, nothing I can do and just gotta get on with it, just so pissed off with sup, and feel like by asking for constructive criticism I have made him angry at me and its just going to make the whole process even worse.

well, time for food and then gonna hit the books for an hour or two, will get there eventually..........cheers peeps!

Oh AL, that's terrible!!! 'Give it a rest'??? How spectacularly unhelpful!!! Well, that's what you should do then, put it aside, don't worry about it, and keep progressing. And sorry to hear about your washing machine!! You are having a tough time! Hope things improve...

haha, thanks Sue - spectacularly unhelpful is EXACTLY what it is? you would think asking for feedback was a good thing, and what they would hope a phD student would ask for! oh well, i'm going to be spectacularly lazy, and get an early night as i just can't face work now after all the ordeal, got a busy day at work tomorrow!
But I have a full weekend and plan to get up early and get a hefty load of work done!
Hope all's going well your neck of the woods?
AL x