I m international student here in UK and my supervisor says take Mphil degree because u dont have basic knowledge of subject and I spent a lot of money tution fee,and living expenses of my government which if i go back i can not pay back to my government because i failed to do phd, i need to know if i have Mphil from uk, how long it will take to do phd again from some other university?? and please advise me what should I do??as I got admission to do phd not Mphil and I have to give all money back to my government which is impossible.

If you look through there's a few topics on this. In the UK most (well science at least) PhD's start as an MPhil you get transferred onto the PhD providing you do well enough in the first year. You still complete in 3 years, the MPhil's basically a safety net incase you really mess up and find you can't cope then you still end up with another qualification instread of completing one year of a PhD.

Hi,

Have you explained this situation to your supervisor? How far into your research are you? Is this something being foreseen for the future, i.e. is your supervisor saying you will not be able to do the phd, or is it that you have exhausted 4 or nearly 4 years of funding and your thesis looks like it will not make it? This is a crucial thing, and let us know?

Second, in any case, would you be able to sustain yourself on the 20 hrs per week work allowance while you repair your research enough to try for the PhD (assuming your sup is correct in their evaluation of you)...

Third, what in your opinion is inadequate about your work? I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but perhaps language/grammar may be an issue in this case...

I do not wish to be critical of your supervisor or your university, but instances of this sort leave me with the (sad) feeling that international students are taken in sometimes, for PhDs without an adequate evaluation of what can be realistically expected of them, especially in circumstances where language is a major hurdle plus/minus academic issues... and then, once the money is paid and the funding runs out, it is difficult to make it meet UK PhD standards, then the student is in a real soup... perhpas it would be better to make entry more stringent (but then again, the huge fees...and the money aspects of this all explains some things...)

Thanks for the posts,but you all know its like robbery that you take an international student ,and at admission time we are well with our degrees but after robbing money u don't know anything u must do self study of the subject and you are not at standard to uk studnet,why the international government must pay triple tuition fee than a uk student because they need more supervision to be equal to the uk student and probationary period is for 3 months -6 months or one year, with one year every one can see if some one has basic knowledge or not then to send someone back home in 3-6 months,one can pay back the money but after 2 years getting £38000 saying you don't have basic knowledge is intolerable and i m always thinking those of my colleagues who have never studied the subject in life and going for holidays before up gradation, how they pass,i have at least done my masters in that subject and i knew more than those,but those who is given first position by these evaluators are still in search of scholarship and they can not find it, i don't know why this is done with me.and now where i must go and what should i do and why my supervisor said in email when i was in my home country that up gradation is in first year and now its in 2nd year and phd is for 3 years in Uk and now its for 4 years and he says no one can do Phd in 3 years and because my funding will finish in 3years and i m international student i must get mphil degree and go back to be in safe side and what should i do with that Mphil degree that i have to spend another 3 years again to do phd, i spent day and night in the lab even all weekends this gives me pain that i worked so hard instead of this i m behaved like this.

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Hi



I shall write a long post with multiple points, sorry!



1) On your large questions on funding:



I think you are getting a little confused because of your own worries. Yes, fees are different for international students (I am one myself, and work hard to pay it, for I dont get a penny from any government/family etc). My thesis has absolutely nothing to do with my country of origin. I work with British kids about their use of the internet. Naturally, I haven't any money from outside, on the other hand I am non EU, so I havent even got RC funding, so I pay my own fees thankfully supported by grants, scholarships, RA work and similar such things. I work hard, and have been lucky.



But today, we are not discussing funding policies. There are many (divergent) views on this, and please do realise that if, as an international student, you want to complain about fees, there are absolutely legitimate worries from home students about this as well, who sometimes face unfair competition simply because people come in from abroad, who are sometimes incompetent, and less deserving at times, but can afford a place. Universities have been minting money this way as well. There are many sides to this debate and I think there is a space for complaints from multiple parties in this.



(Right about now, I am getting the feeling that this thread will blow up into a massive debate, far removed from Fairyface's problem)



2) On your own dilemma



Fairyface, coming to *you* and *your* dilemma. I shall be honest, and please do not take me otherwise. I think your language situation is not competent enough to go throught he academic rigours of a Britsh PhD. You are in science, but even then, thinking/expressing thoughts coherently is an absolute essential. You do not need to be a Shelley, or even a JK Rowling, but you do need to be able to grasp/express matter correctly. From your posts I can see this as a clear problem.



Should your supervisor have taken you on despite noticing this? No and No. Should they not have warned you/guided you towards the best possible remedial measures? yes, and yes, a thousand times.





3) Worries...



Also, I feel a little worried that you think your home/EU colleagues are worse than you, or in any way less competent than you are. This is in no way true! Please realise this: EU/home students have to fight tooth and nail for funding from research councils. The competition is tougher by the day. This funding does not come easily, and often far less easily than those who get money from a lot of rich families abroad.



have you an intellectual basis on which to conclude that your peers are less capable and have it easier? Do you have an extremely strong reaosn to feel that the international student fee issue is of no worry/concern to home/EU students and the question of competition? If not, I think you are being grossly unfair.





But right now, none of these 'meta' issues are your concern. For your problem now, A) please have a talk with your supervisor on salvaging the situation. B) please find out the precise procedures to repair the thesis, talk to the grad admin, students union, counselling, anyone who is responsible. C) make an action plan to resolve this and ask for a supervisory meeting where you bring coherent points to the table and not a mess of worries.



best, PhD Bug

Hi Fairyface,

'Bug has hit the nail on the head: funding - even for UK students - is viciously competitive, overseas or not. Bear in mind that many UK students feel that they lose out to overseas people purely because they pay more to the universities, again, as 'Bug has said. I will add though (and apologies if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick) that being bitter at organisations such as BBSRC because they do not fund enough foreign students is rather missing the point: it is a British organisation initially set up to fund British students. Studying overseas is a luxury, not a right. Be happy you got any funding, plenty here in the UK don't.

With respect to the expected academic standards and universities "robbing money" because "u don't know anything, u must do self study of the subject" - with all due respect, what did you expect? We all have to do it, our BSc/MSc are seldom up to the requirements of a PhD and having to do self study is the norm. You are not going to be spoon-fed at this level, no-one is going to give you a PhD just for turning up and being attentive.

I'd also have to agree with 'Bug about identifying why, after (presumably) passing your upgrade, you have now been told that your academic santdard is not where it is to be expected. If you passed the upgrade, they obviously thought you could go the whole distance. You need more information; go and speak to people, get to the bottom of this and then, when you have all the answers, you can formulate your next step.

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Fairyface, on reflection, I find these bits most problematic now. What solution do you suggest? Do you suggest, *now*, even though it is clear that there are intellectual flaws in the work, that the UK university passes your degree, despute not finding it of a requisite standard, just because the fees have been paid?

By extension, are we not then suggesting that paying fees alone legitimises the grant of a degree? Also, ask yourself, if 3 months had been enough to ask you to leave, as you now find acceptable, would you have left? would you not have felt equally, and probably more wronged then, at not being given enough time to find your feet in a new socio-cultural-linguistic atmosphere?



Accepted. Why do you think your supervisor is doing this then? What on earth has your supervisor to gain after producing a PhD drop out? After investing 3 yrs of supervision, I wonder what he stands to gain by suddenly throwing you out if you are competent, and if your work is intellectually satisfactory.

Fairyface, I am inclined to think that PhD students have to 'watch out for signs' along the way. And these signs are not to come via hand-holding. If you blame your uni for not warning you or spoonfeeding you, if you blame them for having you 'self stufy' your PhD, do ask yourself why you did not, in these 3 long years ever wonder if your work is really at a competent standard, what remedial measures should be taken and where you stand, generally...

I wish you all the best, and please believe me, your govt paid 12k quid a yr to have you come and study here, you are *lucky*, far far luckier than many home students who cannot secure funding and babysit, serve coffee, do anything to pay fees, or worse, the many international students who have perhaps according to the powers that be, 'let their countries down' by researching British stuff, that serves British academia, and hence do not even get a penny from abroad... (not said with any bitterness but I just find it interrsting, although understandable, that because I research Brit teens internet use the funds abroad wont fund me, although the reverse would be true... so, knowledge for the sake of knowledge doesnt quite matter!)

Anyway, off I go..