Hi,

I am currently an Undergrad at Liverpool University (BA Philosophy) considering an academic future in Philosophy.

The thing is, I am torn between applying for an MRes at Manchester University (which is a more highly rated Uni) or a straight MA at Liverpool (which although rated lower as a whole, has a much more highly ranked Philosophy Dept. . 8th overall)

Also; Liverpool offer to pay half my tuition fees for a postgrad course!

Should I go for the more creative aspect of an MRes with an extended dissertation and the prospect of an easier career in academia *easier route into a Phd* , or stick to my smaller but more esteemed dept?

Both Manchester and Liverpool are very highly regarded unis

I would go for the one with the better philosphy department assuming the courses are comparable

Thats exactly my problem, Liverpool has a slightly better dept. with a more exciting variety of research interests (continental philosophy, a world exepert in Indian Philosophy and a national expert in Kierkegaard) whereas Manchester offers an MRes with an easier route into a Phd (however the dept. is not that great and offer modules on ageing, autonomy etc which just frankly seems weird!)

I'd go for Liverpool because, at grad level, the quality of your department is way more important than the quality of your instituion - really, working with top academics is what'll give you a head start with a PhD and an academic career. Also, there's no reason why an MRes will be an "easier" or better route to a PhD, in my opinion. You'll get on a PhD with a good MA, with no problem at all.

I only posit that an MRes is an 'easier' route because of the element of extended research undertaken of your own accord (20,000 word original research led dissertation, as opposed to the 10,000 word MA dissertation)

Unless your dissertation is going to be directly related to the PhD, I don't think the length of it will make a lot of difference. From my experience / observations, the dissertation is about learning a set of skills you can then apply to the PhD (ie - less about knowledge and more about learning to research & present research) ... the amount you write won't make all that much difference.

Just thought I'd add that humanities PhDs tend to get written in 10,000-12,000 words chucks as that is the average length of a chapter (research & write a chapter, hand it in, discuss it, rewrite it and so on). In this way, writing to a 10,000 word limit might actually be better preparation for doing a PhD ...

Another benefit of the MRes is the chance to write 4 'research papers' based on the content of the taught modules, throught the year, around 4,000 words each.

Bearing in mind your point about the length of Phd dissertations, does this then make the MRes more of an attractive choice?

Thanks for everyone's comments, I'm a bit lost in making this choice and I appreciate every constructive contribution :)

How is the MA assessed? Do you have to write papers throughout for that, too? Or just the dissertation?

How is the MA assessed? Do you have to write papers throughout for that, too? Or just the dissertation?

No, for the MA its pretty much bog standard procedure i.e. module score broken down into 50/50 coursework/exam and I think also some modules include 15% participation/attendance mark.

Oh yeah and of course the MA dissertation!

(I like the idea of 'research papers' sounds like good academic training. Instead of just re-hashing others arguments, your actually considering contemporary authors and where the field is going!)

I do see what you mean, and agree that writing research papers is a better option if you're looking to do a PhD. I am a bit puzzled, in fact, about the lack of writing and emaphsis on exams in the Liverpool MA. To be honest, I think any good humanities MA would be more focused on getting their students to write research papers than sitting through an exam (which is a crap test of research skills).

Have you considered other Philosophy MAs / MRes'?

Another problem I have is that I can't really afford to move further than the general merseyside/manchester area

Manchester also offer a straight MA, but this is identical in structure to the one offered by Liverpool (exams and coursework)

My honest opinion is that, if you are serious about considering a PhD, the MRes is a far better option. To be blunt, using exams to partially assess a humanities Master's is simply dumbing down, and really not a good option.

Is there any particular reason why the area you've chosen will be cheaper? Are you just thinking of cheaper rent / living costs, or is it work related? It really might be a good idea to broaden your search as you'll only get one chance to do this. I myself worked & saved up for a couple of years so that I could go where the best course for me was. I don't regret taking the time out to get it exactly right at all.

Good luck, in any case!