God, I need some advice! Basically, I don't think I'm going to finish my PhD as I doubt I'm going to have enough data to pass the upgrading at the end of this year. My two supervisors took me on as they wanted to do a project together, but every experiment we have tried has not worked. I (and they) am completely out of ideas. I can't think of any new directions that everyone will be interested in. I am feeling pretty desperate and wondering whether I should just leave now, rather than have to leave because I have failed the upgrading. I feel completely incapable of coming up with and designing experiments. Its reached the point where I don't even know what I'm interested in any more. I feel like I don't have time to even research this as I'm almost certain that everything I come up with they will have considered and rejected (otherwise we'd already be doing it). My supervisors themselves have said they're not sure what the next step is. I feel like I'm drowning.

If your supervisors have no ideas either than I don't hink you can be held solely responsible for your situation. Inevitably, sometimes expts fail and promising leads go nowhere. The critical question is then whether the initial question was a good choice - as I have learned the hard way - science is the art of the possible. If the initial question was perhpas ill-judged or just too tenuous to risk a PhD project then again one has to wonder why your supervisors sanctioned it. Perhpas you need to take a very different direction - could you take some time out to make a new plan of action?

Something similar has happened to me - I laugh bitterly when I reread my own project proposal now. In my case the data is proving very difficult wrt both quantity and quality and I am trying my best to extract something from it.

I think it is probably more common than you'd think - very often the initial plans are quite flawed.

As smilodon says try find a new direction to go in - take the experience you have - experimental techniques etc and apply them to something else - if you have a specific field that interests you, now is the time to embrace it - with the experience, research techniques and knowledge of your field that you have gained by now, I'm sure you can think of a new approach

Many people change their outline even in 2nd and 3rd years and still do just fine.

It depends on how helpful your supervisor is, but try sit down with them and get a plan of action of what you should do, or brainstorm new avenues to investigate?

Good luck

S

Also - don't assume that they will have considered anything you can come up with - they are not spending as much time thinking about this as you and are not as invested in it. Whne you start talking through some option you might find other things suggesting themselves.

Agree with everyone: I know a few people whose final thesis was very different to what they originally envisaged.

If you want to stay, then don't leave simply because the original experiments are not working. With your supervisors, and perhaps with help from related research groups in other institutions, try to re-design your PhD.

Good to hear from you again, by the way. How did the filming work out?

Thanks guys. I see what you're saying - I don't mind at all changing the direction of my PhD, I'm just concerned that I'm not going to have enough stuff by my upgrading to prove that its worth carrying on with!

Hi Juno! Filming was fine (the money was delicious )and the show has already been aired!

Its good to be back ! You forget that people feel the same way that you do!

B.x

I missed it! Bugger. Is it online?

I don't know what your field is, so this may all be rubbish but firstly don't give up yet. (that isn't a rubbish bit by the way)If your results are not what you expected, that is also progress in your field, and can be just as valuable as a positive result, think laterally and see what you can come up with, there may be a way to use your non-results to further research in the same area. It is odd that your supervisors can come up with nothing, they must have some ideas or are they skipping off to something new and can't be bothered with this any more. If you had funding then there must have been some possibility of something emerging. Have a good read around related areas to see if you can see where your work might fit in and try to relate your work to that,this will give you a new direction, but relate to the work you have already done if you have not had the results you wanted,

then tell the board how this will fit in with your new direction. They should be impressed that you can move the work on despite a setback. Above all think positive and go for it, you have nothing to lose - and if they do have a little snigger, you won't be able to hear it my bet is they will view it in the same way as they view any change, as something I expect they deal with all the time. good luck

Thank you Joyce, that's really good adivce. I will try and look at it more positively.

Juno - alas, it was on BBCiPlayer up until a couple of weeks ago. I believe someone's put the first episode on you tube though. Search for "The People Watchers" , well, only if you're having one of those I'd-rather-clean-my-oven-than-work-days

B.x

Thanks Bobby; I did a You Tube search and it seems that the whole series is on there. I'll do some work first (yeah, right) and have a look.

Hi Bobby. I can empathise with how you're feeling. I'm approaching upgrade and my topic has not become clearer. Through research, I've found that the original topic isn't viable at all, and I have no idea how I can change direction, no ideas coming. Sorry that I don't know how to advise-I'm in the same boat! I thought I had original ideas going into the PhD, but it often happens, that the more you research, the more you realise that your topic's been covered! It's so depressing!!! If we could only somehow make it through the upgrade viva, that would spare us some more time to work it out...

Bobby,

I am not a scientist. I am an aspiring historian. So we are of different backgrounds and I can't give you very good advice. But, all I can say is that you should put up a fight until the last moment. If you actually don't continue, let it be because of the upgrade. But, don't just give up. You might always think, "what if?". So put up a fight till the end and if you don't make it, at least you'll know you tried your best. No regrets.

I personally think you'll be fine if you invest more effort and time into this. I know so many people who changed their ideas and topics at the very end or right before an upgrade.

Bellaz, Look into your own work a little more deeply, as others on here have said in the past, the other work is unlikely to be exactly the same, so you should be able to carve out a little niche for your work,and if not, start from the point they appear to have reached and develop it further, never, ever consider the work you have done is wasted, it isn't treat the other stuff as a springboard to something even more cutting edge

Cheers for the sound advice joyce! I wish I could really see how far I've progressed since beginning. Sometimes we're too close to our work to realise. It'd be a great incentive to keep going, if you could really get a sense of the distance you've travelled.